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Monday, September 29, 2008

Who should switch positions?

By Tangotiger, 11:46 AM

I’m running the Fans Scouting Report for each player, giving him a valuation per position.  Since speed matters little for a catcher, that component is underweighted if I put that player as catcher.  Speed matters alot in CF, so I overweight that component.  I simply put each player at each position, compare that to the position he played the most often this year (through games of Aug 20, 2008), and give you the list:


Number 1 is Jose Guillen as the player most out of position this year.  The guy can’t run, and so, how can you put him in the OF?  The only thing he has going for him is his arm strength.  Ideally, he should be a 3B or catcher.  OF to IF transitions don’t work, especially if you are old (he’s 32).  Going to catcher would be even more problematic.  Basically, he has a really odd set of skills which are not being maximized, other than considering his age.  If he was 22 not 32, with these particular skill sets, I’d turn him into a 3B or catcher.

Tied at number 1 is Pat Burrell.  Similar to Guillen, he’s got alot more value tied to his arm than his legs.  Burrell is the same age as Guillen, so that same applies with him.

Next is Michael Cuddyer.  Yet again, another righty-throwing RF.  The difference here is that Cuddyer is a good fielder, with a fantastic arm, one of the best in the business.  He could have so much more impact at 3B (or catcher).  I can see why Burrell might be hard to trust at 3B, but why would Cuddyer not have kept his career going at 3B?  He played alot of 3B for the Twins.  UZR saw him since 2003, at 2B or 3B, as -7 runs per 162 GP. 

If we look at his scouting reports, year by year, we see that the Twins Fans didn’t like him as a fielder, until 2006.  And that’s when he became a full-time outfielder.  It’s possible that Twins management saw the raw skills to make him an infielder, and the Fans, through 2005, saw that that was not working.  And that since 2006, placed firmly in RF, Cuddyer maximized his potential as best he could.  This could be similar to Upton and Soriano. 

We can see that it’s not working with them as infielders, and they work better as outfielders.  We cannot, as fans, see the raw skills as we might hope the scouting report should, and instead reflects the actual performance.  (That is both good and bad.) The true scout looks more at the raw skills, and can figure out their best position. 

Cuddyer is probably the best test case we have here in terms of trying to come to grips between Fans and pros.  His evaluation from 2006 onwards says he “should” be a 3B.  His evaluation pre 2006, when he played 3B says he “should” be an OF.

Next up is Junior.  All three OF positions are bad for him.  The IF would be fine for him (and as a lefty, only 1B).  But, his skill sets are exactly what a catcher looks like.  What a pure drop in physical tools we have here.  Obviously, he’s not going to become a catcher.  And given that he is a league average hitter, that makes him the ideal replacement level player: a guy who can only DH, in a pool of hundreds of players who are league average hitters who can’t field at all.

Finally, #5 is Rickie Weeks.  A guy whose value is tied up in his legs, and has little value with his arm must be moved to the OF.  Last year, I argued, pre-Mike Cameron, that Braun should move to RF, Weeks to LF, and slide Hart to CF.  With the acquisition of Cameron, only one of those moves was required.  If Weeks has no home in the OF for the Brewers, then either he or Hart has to go.  It just makes no sense to continue the Weeks experiment in the IF.

#1    Colin Wyers      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 12:15

The problem with moving Weeks to the outfield is that he has a middle infielder’s bat. Not that anything you say is wrong, per se. But admitting that Weeks can’t play second would be tantamount to giving up on Weeks at this point, I should think.


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 12:18

There must be some team out there that thinks that Weeks might still make it as a 2B.  The Mets, maybe.  Unload him, and get the most while you can.


#3    Sean      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 12:30

Hasn’t Weeks actually been above average defensively at 2B this year?  ZR+RZR had him at +3 a couple weeks ago.  But I know he is generally pretty bad there, -41 according to Dewan +/- 2005-2007.  That being said, the Brewers seem to really like Alcides Escobar, who supposedly has a glove made of gold.  So in the off-season Weeks could get traded and they move JJ over to 2B.  (We also know the Brewers brought in Durham during the season, so they probably aren’t satisfied with Weeks.) But that doesn’t mean another team isn’t just going to slot Weeks into 2B also.


#4          (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 12:38

Timely you should post this, as I was just thinking about emailing you for Carlos Guillen’s data to see how he profiles as a left fielder given the Tigers announcement that he’d be playing there in 2009.  So if you don’t mind sharing, how does he fit as an outfielder?


#5    Rally      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 12:41

If you watch Cuddyer in the outfield and think he should be playing 3rd, and watch him at third and think he should be an outfielder, maybe he really should be a DH.


#6    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 12:52

I should make it clearer.  You watch Cuddyer play OF, see that he is a good OF, and think he would make an even better 3B.  You watch Cuddyer play 2B or 3B, realize that he’s a bit below average there, but has the tools to be a good OF.

So, in no way should he be a DH.  I’d love to see the real scouting report on Cuddyer (over the years), because he seems exactly like the tough cases (Upton, Soriano, Braun, Weeks, etc) that we come across.  Guys who the scouts think he should do better in the IF, and live up to their potential in the OF.  And when you see them in the OF, you can see why the scouts gave them a shot in the IF.


#7    Craig in MN      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 14:17

As a Twins fan, I think Cuddyer should still be a third baseman.  He wasn’t that bad there...just one opinion.

I think the team/manager made him something of a goat in his last couple years at 2nd/3rd.  I think the fans and media picked up on that, thinking he was worse than he really was.  And then the team moved him to the OF, and the team talked up the move a great deal, making it sound like he was better than he was.  Or it could be that Cuddyer was unlucky enough in his last year at 3rd and lucky enough in his first year in the OF that the public picked up on it on its own.  Add in the previous high expectations, and it seems like a natural public opinion flow from “he’ll be good, but management doesn’t like his defense” to “he’s good enough to be a great OF, maybe he could handle 3b after all”.  I blame Gardenhire, etc, though for not sticking with him at 3rd to see if he could break through there. 

There’s also the interesting note that Cuddyer is deaf in his left ear, which supposedly made it hard to communicate with other infielders.  I don’t think that’s the difference in more that a couple of plays a year, but I may be wrong.  But “Ability to Hear” isn’t a category on the Fan’s Scouting report.  I don’t know how that might ahve affected his overall ratings.


#8    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 14:49

Thanks for that background.  Fascinating stuff.

Someone asked about Carlos Guillen.  He has such a non-descript set of skills, that every position comes out the same for him.  There’s nothing much that he does very well or very poorly that it is something that you try to leverage or hide.  His worst skill set is his accuracy, which probably means you want him in LF.  But, you can reasonably argue any position for him.


#9    rfs1962      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 15:21

My first thought was that Michael Young should be on the list.


#10          (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 15:35

With regard to Burrell… He was a first baseman in college and the minors but was moved to LF after one season there for Travis Lee and then Jim Thome.


#11    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 15:44

Michael Young, like his statistical twin Derek Jeter, should be a 3B.  ARod, at this point in his career, should be a 3B.

Given that you have two guys that should both be a 3B, and don’t lose much value going to SS, you should be inclined to put the better one at SS, but the difference is not worth the aggravation.  You can 2 theoretical runs.  But, it’s better to put your heart and soul at SS in that case.


#12    Hyltzn      (see all posts) 2008/09/29 (Mon) @ 16:26

What’s do you think about Kelly Johnson?

What about Joe Mauer?


#13    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/10/06 (Mon) @ 15:30

Kelly Johnson can play any position below-average.  Alot like Carlos Guillen.

Mauer is best suited at catcher, and maybe at 3B.  Brandon Inge, too.


#14    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/06 (Mon) @ 23:02

The Red Sox should move Pedroia to Shortstop. I haven’t seen enough of Lowrie at SS to make a final judgment on this, but the idea of moving Pedroia back to SS has been in the back of my mind since last season.


#15    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/10/07 (Tue) @ 16:46

I’m generating my comp list as we speak.  The first player in my list is Junior.  His top 4 comps are all catchers, as are 14 of his top 20 comps.

Rickie Weeks only has two comps, one which is very strong (Julio Lugo) and the other is fairly weak (Eugenio Velez, 2B).  He has no other decent comps.

Ryan Braun only has fairly weak comps.  Most of them are corner OF.

Cuddyer only has three comps, all fairly weak: Glaus, 3B, Blanco, C, and Cano, 2B.

Jose Guillen’s comps, not that strong, are OF: Hawpe, Burrell, Vlad, Rivera.


#16    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/10/07 (Tue) @ 16:51

Pedroia’s top comp, by far, is Placido Polanco.  Nice.  Gotta love a system that ends up matching on “heart” as a byproduct. 

14 of his top comps are 2B, SS, 3B.  So, that seems to be his role.  Over half of them are SS.  His top SS comp is Juan Castro.


#17    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/07 (Tue) @ 23:48

Pedroia probably is better suited for 2B. Looking at the Fan’s Scouting Report for 2007, his arm strength (52) is average. His lowest score was speed (44). How important is speed for Middle Infielders? I imagine that it is more important for outfielders.


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