THE BOOK cover
The Unwritten Book is Finally Written!
An in-depth analysis of: The sacrifice bunt, batter/pitcher matchups, the intentional base on balls, optimizing a batting lineup, hot and cold streaks, clutch performance, platooning strategies, and much more.
Read Excerpts & Customer Reviews

Buy The Book from Amazon


SABR101 required reading if you enter this site. Check out the Sabermetric Wiki. And interesting baseball books.
MOST RECENT ARTICLES
MAIL : You ask | We say

Advanced


THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

<< Back to main

Tuesday, September 06, 2011

What WAR is… what WAR is not

By Tangotiger, 04:36 PM

a) WAR is wins above replacement.
b) WAR is a framework.
c) WAR presents the performance of a player into a single number.
d) WAR is limited to the data points it considers.
e) WAR is limited by the bias in the data.
f) WAR is not all-encompassing.

So, what does all that bullsh!t mean?


a)

In order to evaluate the performance of a player, we need to compare him to some baseline. The baseline that is chosen is what is typically considered a “bubble” player.  Those players are the kind who sign minor league free agent deals in the off-season.  That is, guys who any team can sign, at the lowest of possible costs, and still have a warm body playing in MLB.

b)

A framework means it’s a way to string the data together, to weave a story into a consistent process.  For nonpitchers, it considers the following:

1. Hitting over average
2. Running over average
3a. Fielding over (positional) average
3b. Positional value (over a “neutral") position
4. Playing time
5. Anything else (Clutch, Heart, etc)

1. There is a high level of agreement as to how to measure the hitting performance of a player into a single number.  The relationship of walks, hits, home runs, outs, with respect to runs and wins has a high level of agreement to those who research it.

2. There is a strong level of agreement as to how to measure the running performance.

3a. There is some level of agreement as to how to measure the fielding performance.  The high level of agreement is focused on counting the number of plays a fielder actually makes.  Then there is some level of disagreement as to how to measure the number of opportunities the fielder had to make a play.

3b. There is a strong level of agreement as to how to establish the positional value.  It basically follows the Bill James fielding spectrum (DH, 1B, LF/RF, 2B/3B/CF, SS, C).  Because there are few players who are capable of playing SS or C, and there are tons of players who can play 1B or in the corner OF, there is more value in shortstops and catchers.  How much of a gap between 1B and SS/C has some level of agreement.  The DH has its own special limitations, in addition to the question of positional scarcity.

4. There is a high level of agreement as to how much value to give a player for being able to play.

5. There is a high level of disagreement as to how much value to give a player for clutch or heart, or, more importantly, how to determine a player’s clutch or heart.  You can use performance in clutch situations (late and close, or in a pennant race).  You can use the eye test.  You can use multiple ways.  Or you can believe all of that is just chance.  Or you may want to consider other facets of a player’s skillset, over and above what already leads to what we’ve counted for hitting and fielding.  The discussion here centers on being able to indentify those characteristics, and, just as important, being able to apply it consistently.

For pitchers, it considers the following:
6. Runs Allowed
7. Non-fielding components (BB, HB, SO, HR)
8. Batted ball fielding components (hits, outs)
9. Non-batted ball fielding components (SB, CS, PK, BK, WP, PB)
10. Sequencing of events (performance by men on base, bases empty)
11. Starter / reliever performance
12. Innings pitched
13. Leverage
14. Clutch
15. Anything else

You can make a reasonable and justifiable case to include or ignore any of the above.  There are great discussions that have been had and could be had in discussing this.  It’s all a question of how much does the performance that we assign to a pitcher actually relate to the impact of that pitcher.  If Cliff Lee (2010) has a .350 BABIP with runners on base, and .250 with the bases empty, is this really a reflection of Cliff Lee, or is it a reflection of his fielders?  And if he maintains his K/BB ratio in both situations, does this help in determining how much that BABIP represents his impact?  There are dozens of such questions.

c)

Once you’ve established each individual component of a player, and how it relates to his team winning, you add it up, so you can come up with an opinion.  Because everything that is estimated is an estimate, it comes attached with a level of uncertainty.  The confidence range of the estimate is going to be of some non-zero number.

d)

Sometimes, WAR ignores a statistic because it doesn’t know what to do with it.  Other times, WAR ignores a statistic because it thinks that it’s not worth considering.

e)

There’s bias in all data, and the analyst tries to adjust the data to account for the bias.  The bias can be obvious like parks or strength of schedule.  Or it can be more subtle, like teammates (synergy, offense, pitching, fielding, bullpen support).  Or it can be much more difficult to establish, like relying on stringers to plot the location of batted balls or technology to plot the location of pitched balls.

f)

WAR does its best to decide what stats are most worth considering.  But it allows enough room for others to include additional parameters.  WAR only goes as far as the data it uses allows it to go.

***

So, for all those who think they’ve figured out why WAR doesn’t work, sucks, or is otherwise unusable:  that’s bullsh!t.  WAR is a solid framework, logically constructed, and flexible enough that every single person out there can have his own personal WAR implementation.  As I’ve already noted in the past:

We all come up with our “single number”, even though we kick and scream that we shouldn’t come up with a single number.  If one guy argues that Felix is better than Lincecum, and the other argues the opposite, then guess what: they’ve each “smushed” a bunch of parameters, considerations and gut feelings to get to their final opinion.

I remember an old boss of mine deriding the idea of a spreadsheet that would take a bunch of factors into consideration to come up with everyone’s rating at the office, and, in turn, everyone’s salary.  He said that he has to do everything on a case-by-case basis.

But, lost to him is that, in the end, everyone DOES get a final number: a salary.  So, you can have a consistent process, that considers everything objective and subjective.  Or, you can consider those same objective and subjective things, and smush them together in your mind on a case-by-case basis.  You are STILL considering the exact same things.

The difference is that by going case-by-case you may be applying different weights to different parameters for different people as the mood strikes you.  If you have a process, that doesn’t happen.

No one is telling you not to overweight or underweight strikeouts or HR.  But a system requires you to spell out the rules for weighting, and apply that consistently to everyone.

The one good thing about the case-by-case basis is that it forces you to think about parameters.  You’d like to ding Manny Ramirez a little, you’d like to up Jeter a little.  So, you have to create a “heart” parameter.  And that’s perfectly fine!  Just spell it out that that’s what you are doing.  And tell us how much you are giving to each player for heart.  I have no problem with giving out wins for heart, over-and-above whatever his actual performance tells us.  Just spell it out and be consistent.

Instead of coming up with what you think are the problems, come up with your own solution instead.  And if you say you don’t have a solution, and yet you still have an opinion as to which players are the best performing, that’s called bullsh!t.  You have thrown your hands in the air, proclaimed it’s not possible to have a consistent fair system, and yet still can argue about who is having the better season.  So, stop with that bullsh!t, and instead, add value to the discussion by telling us how you would evaluate a player’s performance, and show us your logical and consistent system.  Stop polluting the discussion, and instead, offer us some solution.

#1          (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 16:54

If I distill this down, basically, you are defining WAR as: using replacement level for a baseline and adding stuff up.  I think that is getting very close to a No True Scottsman fallacy, namely, that anyone who criticizes WAR is not criticizing WAR but some component of it, which therefore doesn’t apply to WARTheFramework, but is a criticism of the component itself.  But, with your definition, there really isn’t actually that much to WAR to criticize. 

Maybe that’s your point, but I think including the most common actual implementations of WAR (and their common choices about what to include) in the term WAR is a very reasonable use of language, and this response, which I’ve seen many times, seems less than helpful to useful discussion.

I may be misinterpreting, though with my distillation, and am probably inviting a sharp response.


#2          (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:04

I’ll ditto Larry/#1.

And I’ll also note that criticizing Hippeaux for polluting the discussion and calling his work bullshit is way off base.  He did research into his point on the problem with OF UZR.  He did work toward finding a solution.  I would argue that many of the responses to him, including Tango’s here on this blog and Rob Neyer’s at SB Nation, have polluted the discussion far more than Hippeaux did.  Not that everything Hippeaux wrote was correct.  Far from it.  But he at least added something new to our sabermetric understanding.


#3    mettle      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:16

A few issues:

1) All stats must pass a “sniff-test”. You’ve done it many times with ad-hoc statistical calculations. What you take as personal criticisms of WAR are often times actually sniff-tests of whether the number makes sense intuitively. So, in the article you probably just read, the author was essentially saying, “does it make sense that peter bourjos is move valuable than prince fielder?” The author believes not, then goes about trying to figure out how to fix that. I think that’s fair game discussion and not BS.

2) Everyone seems to acknowledge that there’s some uncertainty about these numbers but I have *never* seen WAR published with a CI. It should be easy enough to calculate; I would, but that doesn’t pay my salary. In the end, though, there should be some real meat on the bone thrown to this variance, especially with the fielding component.

3) The same goes for bin 5. If it’s never been done, it doesn’t really matter to most people that WAR allows for the inclusion of clutch/heart. The fact of the matter is that every WAR calculation I’ve ever seen has explicitly excluded those sorts of factors. I think the two reasons are that (a) most purveyors of WAR don’t believe those are replicable player properties and (b) those sorts of qualities are quite resistant to quantification. You can pretend it’s a coincidence that these things are the case, but I don’t think that’s correct.

So, what a lot of this boils down to is, If you don’t have a better solution, you shouldn’t criticize. There are 2 reasons people don’t necessarily have a solution.
One is they can’t, and that’s more of a philosophical questions: Can someone who can’t cook be a restaurant critic? Can someone who can’t act and direct be a movie critic?
Second, there is also the fact that some are required by economics to focus attention elsewhere and don’t have the time to figure out how to recalculate positional scarcity values, for example.

I’m not sure its fruitful to respond to potentially interesting comments from these two groups of people with, “everything you’re saying is BS.”


#4    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:18

I didn’t call Hippeaux by name here.  If I wanted to name him specifically, I would. 

I talked about him specifically in the other thread, and I already said what that his fielding part was great.  To then use that as an example of me saying it was bullsh!t is itself bullsh!t. 

In any case, if you want to talk about Hippeaux, please do it in the other thread.

If you think I’m polluting the discussion, then I’d suggest you stay away from me discussing WAR, because I’m going to continue to discuss it this way, and I’m not going to change my methods.


#5    Bubba      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:20

I agree with most of what you are saying, Tom.

But to use your terms, I think it is bullsh!t to suggest that anyone can have their own personal WAR implementation.

I am somebody of average intelligence.  On a Saber friendly site, that makes me below average to borderline dumb.

I recognize both that WAR is the best tool and that I also lack the intellectual capacity to improve on it.

That said, I am enough of a skeptic to not doubt some of what I (and others) perceive to be WAR oddities and they typically involve the defensive component.

I think the real problem is that way too many Saber friendly people treat WAR as the end-all stat.  When you discuss its weaknesses, most folks acknowledge its imperfections.  And then a day or two later, All-Star, MVP, HOF “decisions” are based entirely on a player’s WAR.  And if you try to offer any other type of stat, you often get slammed for it.  It’s like the conversation from a day or two ago never happened.  In discussing WAR as a concept, it’s faults can be discussed.  Once it is used as a tool to compare/rank players it seems like it becomes infallible.  This is by no means everybody on the Saber sites but it’s a vocal enough of a minority that I’ve become sick of people that have drunk too much of the WAR Kool-Aid and shout you down if you disagree.

I’m not suggesting anything is better, but simply that it is indeed imperfect and at times needs to be taken with a bit of salt.  Again, especially as it relates to defensive ratings that just don’t seem to make a lot of sense at the extremes.

I realize that there are folks like MGL that would simply argue that I have a duty to keep my mouth shut because I lack the intellectual chops to keep pace with the cutting edge of the field.  And as such my opinion is not just meaningless, but detrimental to the field as a whole.

So while I suppose I can develop my own form of WAR, I’m not sure what the point of that would be.  I do trust that the experts in the field have developed the best system possible.  But I don’t know why one can critique WAR even if that same person fully acknowledges that they aren’t the best person to fix it.


#6          (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:32

I like WAR but had an interesting exchange with BRef on Twitter about it recently. I noticed the Astros had 14 WAR as a team despite their 43-88 record. The 14 WAR turns out to be the difference between replacement-level Pythag and the team’s Pythag, as opposed to actual wins and losses.

Really bad teams tend to underperform their projections (and really good teams tend to outperform). BRef says it’s luck. I think it’s not. I think they’re actually that bad and that they should have fewer WAR to spread around.


#7    gehaz      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:41

#1,

This analogy will no doubt ramp up the controversy instead of down, but it’s more like the difference between the biological fact of evolution and specific theories of how that evolution operates (neo-Darwinism, punctuated equilibrium, complexity theory).

The onus is on the critic to accurately distinguish between the particulars of an implementation and the general framework. If the thrust of the article in question had been “why UZR isn’t good enough for WAR, here’s how to better implement the framework” it wouldn’t have created the pushback it did.

As in evolutionary theory, playing gotcha about some specific aspect of a particular theory of evolution isn’t appropriate grounds to discard the entire idea of evolution, nevermind that creationists will endlessly try exactly this. In like manner, it’s illogical to try to take one aspect of a certain theory of WAR and use a flaw to discredit the entire concept.

Now from my reading of the article I don’t think that Hippeaux was actually trying to grind an ideological axe (ala creationism), but precision in language to distinguish between the various uses of the term “WAR” is the author’s responsibility.


#8    rempart      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:49

I think at the end of the day, it is the defensive runs in the WAR system that are troublesome to many. People, in many cases don’t trust them.

The framework for WAR is really good and logical. The hitting, base-running, park factors and positional adjustments are accepted by almost everyone.

However, the defense as I understand it has a lot of disagreement, amongst even the developers. Where as when we are talking about different ways to measure offense, the accuracy is usually so minutely different that the result is a small change.

A second and perhaps even more important point is the eye test. The hitting stats match what is seen. And, as a result are trusted. This was not always the case. At one time Walks,OBP and SLG% were virtually ignored and Avg/HR/RBI were the holy grail. Now, when you watch a great hitter like Pujols or Cabrera you look at their OBP and SLG and you know they are putting runs on the board. And, a high average, no walk, no power guy like Ichiro is NOT as valuable offensively as they are.

As to the defense and the eye test. Or WAR for that matter. If anybody says they have never questioned a defensive runs rating, and it’s match with what they see, they are lying. I know that you can come up with your own numbers and replace the one you don’t trust. However, it is not as easy as that.

Those who have developed the defensive systems deserve a ton of credit. It is without a doubt a very difficult endeavour. Defense in all sports seems so intertwined that untangling it is difficult at best. There are still biases out there that I’m not sure have been adequately accounted for.

I say keep at it. Maybe using multi-year numbers as we do in park factors is the way to go. Somebody with much more time and intelligence than I is working on it I’m sure.


#9          (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 17:50

Some changes I have seen others implement:

Using -10 to -5 for the DH disadvantage. Treat the player as a bad defender, not a horrible defender.

Grouping defenders in 3 to 7 categories with a max or min value used for extreme defenders.

With pitchers, their are too many to list (ex. 1/3 rWAR and 2/3 fWAR).  I use a K-BB-GB% formula.  I am was not a fan of fWAR or rWAR and went and created my on pitcher WAR. I may actually like a SIERA based pitcher WAR.


#10          (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 18:02

I like this post a lot because it’s a framework for stats in general:

(a) _____ is {definition}
(b) _____ is a framework
(c) _____ presents the performance of a player into a single number
(d) _____ is limited by the data points it considers
(e) _____ is limited by bias in the data
(f) _____ is not all-encompassing

Plug in Wins, RBIs, Stolen Bases, BARISP, my win% in Monopoly when I have a hotel on Boardwalk, etc.


#11          (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 18:06

7:

Interesting analogy.  Certainly, “why UZR isn’t good enough for WAR” would be more precise.  But it is very hard to make that argument because no one is actually publishing those uncertainty levels that are supposedly an inherent part of WARTheFramework.

Also, I think, per 8/, people really are arguing about whether you can add defensive numbers to offensive numbers in this way.  Is that a criticism of WAR or the defensive metrics?  I’m not sure, because inherent in the criticism is a critique of the adding, which really is a criticism of WARTheFramework.  So, “why UZR isn’t good enough for WAR,” isn’t really the argument, I doubt any other defensive metric is going to be satisfying either, and for the same underlying reasons.

I think the argument comes down to whether you can add two numbers with wildly different uncertainties.  The answer is, of course you can, if you keep track of the overall uncertainty.  But, because actual WAR implementations don’t do that explicitly, people are subconciously rebelling against the implicit statement that the uncertainties on the components are essentially equivalent.


#12    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 19:56

WAR does not require UZR.  You can use whatever method of evaluating fielding as you like.  Maybe you prefer scouting report, maybe you prefer WOWY, maybe you prefer UZR, Total Zone, or anything else you invent. 

NONE of that is an indictment of WAR.

So, YOU figure out how you want to evaluate fielding, and YOU plug it into the framework.

I’ve yet to see any criticism of WAR that requires me to change the framework.


#13    Lou      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 20:22

Tom, that’s the exact argument torrent hosts use when confronted about copyright infringement.  Users don’t have share illegal files, but that’s where everyone goes to get stuff for free illegally.

We don’t have to use flawed defensive stats in WAR, but everyone does.  These defensive metrics are tied to WAR whether you like it or not.


#14    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 20:33

Lou: then this is an indictment of ANY discussion of overall player valuation.  You and I cannot have a discussion of Prince v Bourjos because none of us can say with any reasonable accuracy their fielding value, and so, we can’t say who’s better. 

That because we haven’t cracked the fielding part well enough, we can’t have a strong opinion of anything.

What you are saying is not specific to WAR, but to ANYTHING, even your personal opinion.  Why WAR would take the brunt of the fielding issue is ridiculous.

So, I’m not buying your argument for a minute.


#15          (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 20:42

Tango/12:

Under that definition, what is there to criticize?  WAR = addition, wins and replacement level. 

I think, “We can’t measure defense well enough to straight up add it to offense” is actually a critique of the framework, not of the defensive metrics.  One that is not answered by saying, “YOU figure out how you want to evaluate fielding.” If fielding is really hard to measure, then the framework of “adding it in” may, in fact, not be a very good one.

If “then this is an indictment of ANY discussion of overall player valuation” is an adequate rejoinder, then I’m trying to figure out what exactly WAR itself is.  It isn’t the idea of doing overall evaluation, and it isn’t any specific or general method of doing that evaluation.  What’s left?  What is it that’s particular to WAR, but not to general overall valuation?


#16    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 20:51

WAR forces you to stick to the framework.  That you would accept WAR so easily that it seems to add nothing is why WAR is as good as it is.

The positional adjustment may seem obvious now, but it was not when I first created it.

That the replacement level for relief pitchers is 105% of league average, while for starting pitchers is 125-130% of league average may seem obvious now, but not when first created.

WAR basically crystallizes a thought process that otherwise would just be some somewhat coherent jumble.

To argue against WAR is to argue against that level of crystallization.  Or, it’s to argue against the entire idea as it is formed, and maybe you prefer Win Shares, which shares SOME of the framework, but takes some decidely left turns.


#17          (see all posts) 2011/09/07 (Wed) @ 00:43

I think Bubba @10 makes some cogent points about the frustration in the use of WAR or other statistics in arguments.  If I weren’t literally lying on my back in pain I could find the quote in Win Shares where James says not to draw any conclusions among players with Win Shares within three of one another and then proceeds to do so for much of the rest of the book.  So it is with WAR.  We are as humans too disposed to use our toys once we open the package. 

This is all I know of statistics:  everything other than a pure counting statistic produces a cloud.  The number is a reasonable point in the cloud to describe something, be it a park effect or a positional adjustment.  But it is not the only or the right one.  When you add up, as WAR does, a number of such numbers, then the final number may approach the truth, such as it is, by cancelling out the accumulated biases in the data, or it may get you further from the truth, because the biases, or errors, or misapproximations from small sample size all lead it one direction.  I think Tango is acknowledging that this is an issue with WAR; if you used fielding percentage instead of UZR you’d probably see more errors cumulatively yet you’d probably get some random comparative sets that eyeballed better, too. 

Point is, when I see someone make an argument about how one player is better than another, or having a better season, based solely on small differences in WAR (or any other stat),I want to scream.  WAR is an argument-starter not an argument-ender.  It’s when you get down to the distinctions it makes among players--here a number one feels confidence represents an accurate distinction between players, there a number that is more of a placeholder until we have better information--that you start to understand what you’re talking about when you use WAR.  Fine distinctions among two left fielders with similar playing time will have a higher degree of confidence than comparing Joe Mauer and a DH.  I know Tango gets that but too many commentators would rather just use a list.


#18    Lou      (see all posts) 2011/09/07 (Wed) @ 05:23

Tango:  I really do believe WAR is the best tool, and I believe Hippeaux thinks the same, along with most other rational people who look at baseball statistics.

No one is indicting WAR. All anyone is saying is that it is not yet perfect.


#19    Brian Cartwright      (see all posts) 2011/09/07 (Wed) @ 07:03

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with WAR. It’s a method of combining stats. Some of those component stats that are being combined might not be as accurate as they could be, but that’s not really WAR’s fault.

WAR is not a new idea. I was using it in my Strat league about 1995, calculating my salary values to compare the league’s values, to see which players were over and under priced.

I believe I originally got the concept from reading the Bill James Abstracts back in the 80’s. My earliest recollection is 1983, while I was statistician for the AAABA summer league in Johnstown. Randy Mazey, who later played for Clemson and is currently an assist coach at TCU, had the year before hit about .450 and set the league record for steals in his rookie season at age 17. In ‘83, his hitting was good, but not great. In the meeting for the MVP vote, I presented evidence of how many runs he saved on defense (great catch rate, virtually no extra base hits allowed in CF), along with his pitching and base stealing. He got the MVP.

The goal of playing is to win games. Games are won by scoring and not allowing runs. If all the different ways of measuring a players performance (batting, pitching, defense, running) can be measured in runs, then those values can be added together to get a total for each player.

Runs above average should be used when summing players for a team total, so that a sum of zero indicates a .500 record, but when ranking players runs above replacement must be used to give credit for playing time, as an average player is roughly the 15th best of 30 at his position in MLB, so he has value. It’s the 30th best guy who’s making minimum salary.

That’s WAR. I don’t see anything wrong.

Were there are disagreements are on measuring defense and assigning positional adjustments. That’s not WAR. You can measure defense and never use WAR.


#20    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/09/07 (Wed) @ 08:01

Lou/18: I’ve just described exactly what WAR is and what it’s limitations are. 

If you want to talk about Hipp specifically, do it in the other thread please.


#21    Tim_the_Beaver      (see all posts) 2011/09/07 (Wed) @ 12:06

Tango- thank you for continuing to explain (and sometimes defend) the amazing intellectual capital you and others have developed on this subject.  It is progress that should not go to waste, and I worry that the many misunderstandings and misinterpretations of it would render it so.  So, thank you.


#22    rempart      (see all posts) 2011/09/14 (Wed) @ 14:21

I looked at all players who have garnered MVP award shares going back to the advent of the modern award in 1931. I compared their career totals to their rWAR and got a correlation of .77 between them. It is my belief that there can be something to be gained by looking at this. The MVP voting is flawed and not perfect, as is WAR. It is still useful information, a scouting report if you will. It is not that they are always right. But, given multiple years of performance we can gleen useful info relating to clutch, heart, defense, leadership etc. One area where I think this data can be particularly useful is the Hall of Fame argument. If one player has a WAR of 55.0 and garnered only .06 of an award share, and another had 52.5 and 3.00, this is useful info about how they were perceived.

What I have done is figure out expected WAR totals based on MVP award shares. A very simple formula of:

Shares*20+10=expected WAR

Is pretty accurate.

Then, I take the difference between expected WAR and actual WAR and divide by 4. This difference is then added to the players WAR and will operate on a scale of about +/- 10.

I will post some results at the end. First, this seems at good at time as any to say this. It has always bothered me when doing these rankings that no one takes this info into account. There have been articles written about Gene Tenace and Darrell Evans and some others being underrated. And, they definetly were.WAR has helped to uncover many of these great players. Some undervalued because of defense, many because they walked of hit for power at an important position. But, maybe they need to be regressed back a bit towards the other direction. Maybe their defense wasn’t quite as good as the system says, maybe the park effects exaggerate their value, maybe the player was an absolute ass like Dick Allen. I choose to use the info rather than discard it as sportswriter’s BS.

In my Catchers example below you see the before rankings followed by the after rankings.

rWAR    MVP    exp    adj    Pos    rk    Player    First
71.3    2.8    65.4    
-1.5    2    1    Bench    Johnny
67.7    1.0    30.8    
-9.2    2    2    Rodriguez    Ivan
67.3    1.3    35.6    
-7.9    2    3    Fisk    Carlton
66.3    1.9    48.6    
-4.4    2    4    Carter    Gary
61.9    4.0    89.6    6.9    2    5    Berra    Yogi
59.1    3.2    73.2    3.5    2    6    Piazza    Mike
55.6    1.5    39.2    
-4.1    2    7    Torre    Joe
50.4    0.7    23.6    
-6.7    2    8    Simmons    Ted
48.7    2.0    50.4    0.4    2    9    Dickey    Bill
48.7    0.1    11.2    
-9.4    2    10    Tenace    Gene
46.1    0.8    25.6    
-5.1    2    11    Posada    Jorge
43.4    1.5    40.0    
-0.9    2    12    Munson    Thurman
43.3    1.3    35.6    
-1.9    2    13    Freehan    Bill
40.6    0.3    15.0    
-6.4    2    14    Porter    Darrell
39.0    1.0    29.4    
-2.4    2    15    Lombardi    Ernie
38.7    2.0    50.4    2.9    2    16    Mauer    Joe
38.1    0.0    10.0    
-7.0    2    17    Kendall    Jason
36.2    2.5    60.4    6.1    2    18    Campanella    Roy
35.7    0.3    15.2    
-5.1    2    19    Parrish    Lance
                            
rWAR    MVP    exp    adj    Pos    rk    Player    First
71.3    2.8    65.4    
-1.5    2    1    Bench    Johnny
61.9    4.0    89.6    6.9    2    2    Berra    Yogi
59.1    3.2    73.2    3.5    2    3    Piazza    Mike
66.3    1.9    48.6    
-4.4    2    4    Carter    Gary
67.3    1.3    35.6    
-7.9    2    5    Fisk    Carlton
67.7    1.0    30.8    
-9.2    2    6    Rodriguez    Ivan
55.6    1.5    39.2    
-4.1    2    7    Torre    Joe
48.7    2.0    50.4    0.4    2    8    Dickey    Bill
50.4    0.7    23.6    
-6.7    2    9    Simmons    Ted
43.4    1.5    40.0    
-0.9    2    10    Munson    Thurman
36.2    2.5    60.4    6.1    2    11    Campanella    Roy
38.7    2.0    50.4    2.9    2    12    Mauer    Joe
43.3    1.3    35.6    
-1.9    2    13    Freehan    Bill
46.1    0.8    25.6    
-5.1    2    14    Posada    Jorge
48.7    0.1    11.2    
-9.4    2    15    Tenace    Gene
39.0    1.0    29.4    
-2.4    2    16    Lombardi    Ernie
40.6    0.3    15.0    
-6.4    2    17    Porter    Darrell
38.1    0.0    10.0    
-7.0    2    18    Kendall    Jason
35.7    0.3    15.2    
-5.1    2    19    Parrish    Lance


#23    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/09/14 (Wed) @ 15:05

I updated your chart.  It lines up better if you put text to the right, and you use {code} tag, but with [ ].

And I would think most sportswriter votes are b.s. in terms of value-added.  Their fielding value would be good, but then they undo they with their personal appreciation of walks, HR, RBIs.  I’d rather have just gotten their Sportswriter Scouting Report, so that *I* could weight their individual components, rather than have the sportwriter weight it by himself to give me Juan Gone 1996 (or whatever year that was).


Page 1 of 1 pages


Name (required)
E-Mail (optional; WILL be published)
Website (optional)

<< Back to main


Latest...

COMMENTS

May 25 15:37
What sabermetrics is NOT

May 25 15:28
Largest demonstration in Canadian history?

May 25 15:12
Do pitcher’s reach back for velocity when needed?

May 25 15:02
Pete Palmer’s new book: Basic Ball

May 25 13:04
“Why Kickstarter works”

May 25 12:51
Chad Curtis

May 25 11:32
Howard Stern

May 25 11:26
Lack of hustle during a game

May 25 10:58
Rooting for laundry

May 25 02:38
NFLPA lawsuit against collusion