THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

Weaver and Verlander - great pitchers, big babies.

I thought his first sentence was fine.  I can see how pitchers would see it as bush league, but he also has a pretty reasonable sense of the strategic value of the play from Aybar’s point of view.  I think you see the quote how you want to see it… if you think Verlander is a crybaby or unsportsmanlike, you’ll see that in the quote.  If you see him as a good guy who sees the bigger picture beyond himself, I think that’s reasonable too.

As for the elbow… Aybar clearly did stick an elbow out as he ran by, but Verlander was blocking the basepath at the time (without the ball) so I think one could argue Aybar stuck the elbow out to protect himself as he brushed by Verlander to take the most direct path to the plate.  I don’t think there was anything noteworthy about the play, dirty or otherwise.

As far as the bunt goes, it’s perfectly fine. They were only down by three. Verlander should be more concerned with that hideous throw.

Would anyone but a pitcher complain about the contact during the rundown? No. Verlander was standing in the baseline. The announcer on the Tigers’ broadcast said he thought there was a good chance Aybar would have been safe on an obstruction call anyway.

Also, if Verlander wants to go after someone it should be his third basemen. In that situation you should take the out at first.

I don’t think it was a bad idea to go after the play at home, because it should have been an easy out.  The problem is that Kelly ran him way too close to home and threw too late for Verlander to tag him out, even if he had caught the ball.

With all of the hand-wringing about yesterday, it’s worth nothing that it was a _really_ entertaining game.

Mike/2

Verlander says: “There’s arguments both ways...”

And I’m guessing the argument goes something like “It’s bush league to bunt when a pitcher is throwing a no hitter because it’s a “cheap” way to get a hit.”

This is not an argument. It’s a stupid old unwritten baseball rule that is not based in logic. Batters try to get on base. If a batter thinks he has a better chance to get on base bunting than swinging, he has every right to try to bunt. It’s a 3 run game! If he has a worse chance of getting on base, then as a pitcher you should be HAPPY he is bunting. It’s just complete nonsense, and Verlander was clearly suppressing his inner monologue when he delivered that line (I watched it). He hated the fact that Aybar bunted.

But whatever, they are professional athletes with egos. We can’t expect them all to be rational.

As I watched the play happen in real time, I thought Aybar was going to run right through Verlander (Pete Rose style) because of all the conflict that had happened over the last inning and with Verlander in the base path.  Aybar slipped past him, but replays showed he did put up an elbow.  I didn’t think it a big deal, though, something to complain about only if you’re looking for something to complain about.

Guillen’s response after his home run was the most obnoxious thing that happened on that field.

It’s too bad the unwritten rules of baseball have evolved such that a pitcher can’t just return the favor on the celebration, and call it even. 

If a hitter “pimps” his home run trot, then the next time you strike him out, you pump your fist a few times, puff out your chest, flex your bicep and point to it while the guy walks back to his dugout, whatever display best mimics the original “offense”.  Nobody’s life is put in danger, there’s no real escalation, you’re just paying back in kind.

Someone tell me why that couldn’t work in baseball.  It certainly works in basketball…

I’ve been a huge Tiger fan for over 35 years, but I still think the Tiger fans were ridiculous for booing Aybar when he bunted.

It doesn’t matter if the game was still close, or if the Tigers were up by 10 runs--there is no point in the game where it becomes Aybar’s job to help his opponent no-hit his team.

It’s not a “baseball” thing, but an “American baseball” thing. 

NFL tacklers go all nuts when they sack the QB.

And, I would not be surprised if celebration like that exists in baseball in DR or overseas.

***

It’s all based on conditioning.  I remember reading about this experiment where they put 5 gorillas in a cage, and there was some food hanging.  When one gorilla jumped for the food, they all got doused with water (or electro-shocked).  So, they all sat there, not going for it.

Then they switched one of the gorillas, and the new gorilla tried to jump for the food, but the 4 original gorillas jumps him before he got the chance.  (They knew what would happen, but he didn’t.)

And so they kept replacing one of the originals for a new one.  So, now you have 5 new gorillas in a cage, and none of them is going for the food.  And when they replace one of the new gorillas with an even newer gorilla and that gorilla goes for the food, they all jump him… even though NONE of the gorillas new the reason!

They were all conditioned to jump when someone else went for the food.

***

So, there’s a line there between tradition and conditioning.  Is it based on respect or is based on 1984?

Reminds me of when Pete Rose got all mad at Gene Garber (?) for ending his big hitting streak by throwing change-ups.  Seemed dumb then, seems dumb now.

Andrew, I love that the Tigers fans booed.  Isn’t the entire nature of being a fan kind of irrational to begin with?  Maybe it’s my boyhood WWF fandom speaking out, but anything that gets the crowd riled up, whether happy or sad or angry, is a great thing in my opinion.  (assuming no one gets hurt)

Speaking of WWF and Greg’s comment… I think this needs to happen.  If you K a guy after he’s pimped a home run, you should absolutely do the Hulk Hogan cupping-the-ear-to-hear-the-crowd move.  The down side though is that the batter who hit the HR is most likely still “ahead"… 1-2 with a K and a HR is a pretty great line, and his team is likely ahead as well.  Only works if the K happens in a high-leverage situation.  And most of the guys who K people in those situations give a fist pump anyways, regardless of prior behavior by the batter.

I tweeted it at the time, but the idea that you would take umbrage on the bunt is asinine.

Aybar’s job is to get on base. Period. Verlander’s job is to prevent that from happening. Period. Both teams are clawing every game for the Division title. It’s not like it was a 9-0 game. Especially given that Verlander was smoking the Angels’ line-up it made even more sense for Aybar to bunt.

He needs to get over it.

God I hate unwritten rules…

Verlander complains?

[1] He prefaced it by saying, “from a pitching standpoint, we ...”
[2] He smiled very big when he said.
[3] Following that his voice was very calm and he kept acknowledging that it was a close game, even though reporters kept “baiting” him to say something harsh about the bunt single.

It b others me that we’re in such a rush to judgement to label somebody something they aren’t. Am I mistaken in not seeing where Verlander has been anything but class in his career?

Certainly a guy throwing 100 mph (even 101mph in this game) could be a REAL dick about it if he wanted to.

I think Jared Weaver just had a bad day in the hot sun. It happens.

We don;t have to chalk up both guys as being babies, jerks, etc.

#13. It was not a bunt “single”.  It was an attempted bunt single.  I believe it was ruled an error and rightly so.
vr, Xei

And an “unearned” run by Verlander!  Long live the Earned Run Rule!

Looks to me a video of Verlander yelling at someone (Aybar?) and telling him something about his back (that he has a tag sticking out?  or that he’ll plunk him next time?).

http://www.twitvid.com/VY8VK

***

Bill James:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/DisplayAnswers.aspx

Yes, and I thought Verlander’s saying that it was bush league to bunt against him to break up the no-hitter was the MOST offensive thing connected with the game, and that if anything connected with the game was totally intolerable to major league baseball, it should have been that.  Major league players have an absolute obligation to try to win the game, and the value of “respecting” a no-hit try cannot be allowed to take precedence over that.  Anyone who suggests that it should, in my view, should be suspended until he apologizes and explicitly acknowledges that the other team has every right and every obligation to try to defeat him, without any regard whatsoever to personal goals.

So how come there isn’t something analogous for hitters when they’re on a long hit streak, i.e. if a hitter is on a long hit streak, and in the 6th inning or later without a hit, the pitcher can only throw fastballs…

It seems to match up: it’s taking away a weapon in the opponent’s arsenal, out of (misguided) “respect” for the potential historical significance of the other player’s performance.  It’s not a total giveaway, as the pitcher can still throw the fastball hard, and locate it wherever he wants, but “no offspeed pitches, please, we have a streak here...”

Felipe Alou said that he was ok to challenge McGwire when his historic moment was in his grasp, but then after that, he wanted his pitchers to pitch around him. Pavano however really bent over backwards there, and looked like he threw down the middle.

I’ll have to find the quote…

@Tom

Can one change their opinion in the light of new evidence?

I do.

I don’t mind pitchers throwing a fit when a guy bunts during a no-hitter, just as I don’t mind a guy with 3 HRs barking some insults to the pitcher that pitched around him in the 4th at bat. I also don;t mind a catcher jumping up and showing the ball to a runner that’s just plowed them or even slam the ball near where they lay.

Baseball’s emotional, althetes are generally emotional (and highly competitive),and every athlete seemingly thinks everyone else is out to shortchange them (maybe that mentality helps).

Here’s what I don’t like ... yelling and being dramatic at Aybar ... and then being cute and funny about with the reporters. Don;t be two-faced. If you think Aybar is a pussy for bunting on a no-no and you’re gonna give him kideny damage with a fastball, then say it to the media as well.

If other people disagree with your opinion or they don;t like your tone, then F--- em. But, don’t have two different presentations for two different audiences.

I think the “bunt versus a no-no” is an unwritten rule that has been erased. I think batters have said “We don’t care” enough that it’s no longer a big deal to the fans (in general).

At this point, I have to wonder just how many unwritten rules (on the field) still exist.

To Verlander, I think one could just very simply say “make a good throw, moron. This isn’t the 2006 World Series.”

* kidney.

http://www.tiny.cc/fzxt5

When Dennis Martinez had his perfect game going, I remember there was a play that he had to come in, he fell to his knees, and he threw to first. 

I don’t remember the play exactly (I just remember Dennis doing all that), so I presume it was a bunt.  I don’t remember anyone making any kind of mention about that play.

Must have been Juan Samuel, bottom of the 7th:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN199107280.shtml

It was a 2-0 game.

Greg #17- read my comment #10.  Pete Rose seemed to think there was indeed some sort of unwritten rule that you had to “challenge” a guy with a long hit streak.  Idiotic, imo, but there you go.

From Wiki:

The competitive Rose was sour after the game, blasting Garber and the Braves for treating the situation “like it was the ninth inning of the 7th game of the World Series” and adding that “Phil Niekro would have given me a fastball to hit.”

Phil Niekro didn’t have a fastball, but I guess that was Rose’s point.

I don’t care if someone has a hitting streak or a no hitter. The job of the pitcher is to get as many batters as possible out, while the job of the batter is to not get out.

Do your job.