THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

Agreed, that one is just plain wrong.  Just draw it to the player’s attention.  Since there is no advantage to submitting an unsigned card, there should be no penalty.

Veteran golfer Jim Furyk was disqualified from participation in The Barclays tournament this week because he was eleven minutes late for his tee time for the pro-am tournament that precedes the actual tournament. This probably is best characterized as a custom or something like that, rather than an actual rule, and I guess that a lot of pros would blow off those pro-am tournaments if they didn’t do something, but this seems really harsh.

Ah-hahaha… that’s funny.  That’s like telling Longoria that he can’t play in tonight’s game because he got to the park late for his scheduled time for the batting practice.

No, it’s more like telling Longoria he can’t play because he showed up late to his autograph signing.

Yes, this is all stupid.

And yet, how many intentional rules violations are there in professional golf?  How many negligent rules violations (equivalent to, say, the phantom touch of second base on the DP pivot (yes, this isn’t a rules violation per se but the player knowingly comes off the base to gain an advantage))?  Isn’t this absurd no tolerance policy an integral part of the golf culture that, if removed, could lead to players losing the responsibility of playing by the rules and calling their own violations?  Ok, the score signing thing is not one of the 34 Rules of Golf, nor is the pro-am DQ (though both are rules of the PGA TOUR). Perhaps the score-signing rule should be revised to give more leeway.  But they probably would still need to adhere to their “the rules are the rules” policy.

Wait, so you are saying that are core rules of golf, this “34 rules of golf”, and then on top of that you have some sort of “ground rules” that various tournaments implement, and one of them is the “sign the scoresheet” and another is “attend sponsor events”, and if you don’t do it, you are disqualified?  And, it’s the ground rules that have the most leeway (seeing that they are not part of the core), and what they decided to do is make those more strict?

This is like the infield popout homerun at in Tampa.

(See link for rules)
There is a rule (6-3) that you must start when the Committee tells you to start (though they are allowed to let you start up to five minutes late with a 2-stroke penalty). And Rule 6-5 says:
b. Signing and Returning Score Card
After completion of the round, the competitor should check his score for each hole and settle any doubtful points with the Committee. He must ensure that the marker or markers have signed the score card, sign the score card himself and return it to the Committee as soon as possible.
--
The “can’t leave scorer’s tent before signing” is a tour rule.  For the pro-am rule, yes, players found lots of excuses to miss them, and the pro-ams are big money-makers for the clubs that host the tournaments and the tour.

As someone who played (marginally) competitive golf from age 14-21, I’m going to disagree.  I was told at every step of the way from freshman in HS through to college that you sign the card or you are dq’ed.  The reasoning is that you are attesting to your score.  Rules are self applied in golf and this states that you applied the rules to yourself.

The pro-am thing on the other hand struck me as really, really stupid.

I was told at every step of the way from freshman in HS through to college that you sign the card or you are dq’ed.

If the manager is told every step of the way that the lineup card had to be submitted perfectly, or the game is forfeit, would you be ok with that?

That is, you are saying that this is a learned/taught behaviour, and so, everyone goes with the program.

Does this mean then that if the manager submits a lineup card with “Young” and “Young” as opposed to “Yount” and “Young”, and he signs it, then the game is over?

From the golf-perspective, of learned behaviour, of rules are rules, then, we’d have to say, yes.  And all the (male) fans in attendance accept this, and go home.  And all the female fans are thinking “what the f-ck are you guys doing here?”.

The zero-tolerance policy is not proportional, and so, it doesn’t matter how hard we’ve been told that stealing 10 million dollars and stealing 10 dollars is the same crime, it’s not justice.

The guy shot a 61, and everyone saw him shoot a 61.  Do we really need him to tell us that he shot a 61 before he leaves a tent?  Can’t someone call him back and say: “oops… you forgot to sign this”.

What’s the IRS penalty for not signing your taxes?  It’s considered an untimely filed return, and penalties are based on that.  It’s not like it was tax evasion.

"If the manager is told every step of the way that the lineup card had to be submitted perfectly, or the game is forfeit, would you be ok with that?”

It wouldn’t really matter to me unless I was the manager.  Also, the lineup card analogy is a strawman having nothing at all to do with the situation. 

What if each baseball team played the game separately, tracked their own scores unwatched by others, and then returned following their respective game to provide an attested statement to their runs scored to determine the winner?  Would you be more of a stickler then about how that settlement of the score happened?

While technology may make the scorecard signing a moot point at the highest level of pro golf.  In a college match or even minor league contest (which this essentially) where the competitors are on different areas of the course and playing separately and not always in plain view of each other, signing the card takes on a much, much different meaning.  I would be surprised if more than tiny proportion of shots taken in this tournament were filmed.  I’m not even sure if the scoring updates provided during the tournament aren’t self reported.

Also if golfers don’t like it they can lobby for its change.  The PGA Tour is a non-profit owned by the players themselves.  So the players, in effect, endorse every one of its rules.  This isn’t like mlb where the players play for the owners who set the rules.  And someone is applying the rules to the players.  The players would be completely within their rights to change this rule on their own.  The players don’t have a problem with it. 

It was the same way the the PGA Championship last week.  A lot of people with a superficial understanding of the rules and history of the game stepping in and acting like they know best.

Just to clarify.  My superficial understanding line was in reference to the Dustin Johnson blowup and the way the mass media handled it and not a shot at present company.

The players don’t have a problem with it.

This is a good point, as it essentially matches what I always say regarding drugs in sports: it’s a workplace issue.  If players really cared, they can make penalties for positive tests very strong.  Instead, they turn a blind eye.

So, to adjust the rules, either the players are happy, or they can’t be bothered for something that will likely not affect them anyway.

What if each baseball team played the game separately, tracked their own scores unwatched by others, and then returned following their respective game to provide an attested statement to their runs scored to determine the winner?  Would you be more of a stickler then about how that settlement of the score happened?

A perfect example.  Everyone is watching the scoreboard, so we all know who is winning or not.  The game ends, everyone celebrates, and we all go home.

Sweet Lou forgot to go to the umpires room to give in his scorecard, and instead leaves the Stadium because the Cubs won Game 7 of the World Series.

As soon as his big toe steps foot out of the stadium, the KC press is there to take a picture of him, awarding the Royals the World Series.

That’s what the golf rule is like.

It’s not the rule that is horrible—signing your card is a cool aspect of the sport—it’s the penalty.  If someone doesn’t sign, how about a simple nudge from an official?

This is what we’ve been talking about here: the proportionality of the penalty to the offense.

Anyway, I love Sean’s analogy to the baseball game.  It brings it home for me.

Wow, they changed the rule (see link)!  Showing up late for a pro-am is now just a “disciplinary matter” rather than tournament DQ.