THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

Kudos to Hayhurst, but I’m not sure what the comment about Maher even means. How is any atheist meant to bring a level of introspection to the question of the corruption of Christian values, given that he doesn’t believe in the magical version of Christ?

BTW, while obviously not from the point of view of a Christian athlete, since Maher is neither, he has made similar points in the past, notably that Christian institutions in the US treat god like a brand.

All that said, I don’t know why a pro football player couldn’t be the best modern example of Christ. I wouldn’t argue that Tebow represents that, but I also wouldn’t argue that his job (alone) makes that impossible.

Hayhurst appears to be a smart guy, but (from the nitpicking department)…

“There are 300,000,000 professed followers of a poor, homeless, carpenter in America today...”

Did he forget about the Jews, Muslims, Buddists, atheists, etc.?

Population of US: 307,000,000.  Percent Christian: 78.6.  Number of Christians = 241,000,000.

Those tweets are well put, and I’m not anti-Tebow either necessarily but anyone who believes he is deep enough to think or say those things is kidding themselves.

#1

Is it possible that Hayhurst is going for the “eye of the needle” point? (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+10:24-25&version=KJV) That was how I read the post. I thought that Hayhurst was saying that it is easier for Tebow to be a believer when the rewards of life are so abundant.

#3

I’m actually surprised it’s that low. Of course, I come from a Bible belt state so that might explain my viewpoint.

@Mr. Red: If Dirk’s taking that point of view, then he’d best exit the MLBPA at the earliest opportunity, since that organisation is trying to deny him entry to heaven.

Well, I would hope that he’s not taking it literally. I read it as “Christianity needs a spokesperson who ISN’T rich, well-liked, and successful.” Now that you say that, I do think I used the wrong Bible passage. Oh well, it’s been a few years since I was a Catholic school student. My teachers would be embarrassed.

Mr. Red/4 wrote: “I thought that Hayhurst was saying that it is easier for Tebow to be a believer when the rewards of life are so abundant.”

I think this is exactly his point. Hayhurst wrote a blog a few weeks ago where he noted that the only difference between The Tebow and The Crazy Street Person, and the only reason we take one seriously and mock the other, is their soapbox, and that this should be troubling for people who profess to take Tebow and Christianity seriously. And he’s right.

Me, I would love if an athlete could have a great game and subsequently explain that god had nothing to do with it because he really can’t be bothered with the outcome of a game played by millionaires who are employed by billionaires.

That was how I read the post. I thought that Hayhurst was saying that it is easier for Tebow to be a believer when the rewards of life are so abundant.

Doesn’t the data actually support the opposite?
The lower the income, the lesser the education, the more likely one is to be religious?

Non-religious people are often quick to point this out, as if painting rleigious people as simple-minded or having the mind of a child ... or explaining that one of the big attractions for religions is “wealth in the afterlife” (not financial wealth, but favor). The least shall be greatest, the last shall be first, the meek shall inherit the Earth, camel-needle ...”, etc.

As far as Christianity goes, with some of the messages it seems (and not so meekly either) to be better off to be low income than rich given all of the temptations that wealth brings.

But anyway, the data (or the last data I saw) revealed that “religiousness” is inversely proportional to education and income.

Human nature seems to be that when one does well “it’s all me, baby” and when things don’t, it’s “bad luck” or “God doesn’t like me”.

As far as I can tell for Tebow, he’ll thank God for the opportunity, win or lose. He’s also been on missions, etc. I don’t think his background and experiences are typical of early 20s Christians. Tebow seems to infuriate non-religious people because, unlike many Christians, he lives differently than most. Many religious people live like everyone else, except for Sundays between 8-11 AM. Society generally likes those Christians because they aren’t really different.

A favorite expression of mine is “Everyone prays for rain, few carry an umbrella”. Tebow wears a raincoat and rain boots. Society doesn’t like people like that.

If Tebow blows his knee out in pre-season and can never play football again, my guess is he goes right into ministry.

Kurt Warner continued to be vocally praising even during his down times where he couldn’t hang on to the ball, and was being torn down continually.

I don’t remember people really not liking Evander Holyfield even when he was given praise to God for strength and courage ... which he used to fight other men.

Another interesting aspect that I see is that former player now turned analyst type really don;t like his game ... even though the same types were continually backing Michael Vick and inaccurate running QBs of that type.

Tebow brings out a whole lot of interesting human behavior topics.

But really I just wanted to point out that wealth and religion usually don’t go together very well, unless its a person using their religion as a means to obtain wealth, but that’s another discussion.

Me, I would love if an athlete could have a great game and subsequently explain that god had nothing to do with it because he really can’t be bothered with the outcome of a game played by millionaires who are employed by billionaires

But the message from Yahweh is the exact opposite. Isn’t that the lesson of Job? (and countless others in the text actually).

One common theme in many of the OT stories is [1] character has strong faith, [2] obtains success because of his faith, [3] enjoys success, [4] loses his faith, [5] loses his success, and [6] regains his faith.

Now, I agree in that I don’t think God really cares about a football game, but then again God might. This is a main reason why I’m no longer religious. I’m arrogant. I think I can solve almost all of my own problems and make my own success. That type of attitude doesn’t work well with religions that are based on things like “take all things to the Lord in prayer” and “all things are possible through Christ ...”.

The athletes are simply stating the teaching of their god. For them to say otherwise, would be contradictory.

Also, how come no one hates Ray Lewis and his overt religiousness? Or is it just we’re too damn scared to say anything to or about Ray Lewis?

Contemporary American Christianity is so *not* about camels and needles and I’m not sure if it ever was. Sure, every once and a while someone gets all worked up about money changers in the temples and starts another branch on the judeo-christian tree, but in America, Christianity has been seamlessly merged with the church of the dollar.

So, only the righteous are rewarded, so if you’re rich or successful, it must mean you’re righteous and if you’re poor, you must be craven.
Haven’t you ever seen a Republican debate?
Or seen a bus ad for Creflo Dollar ministries?
You can always check out the nicely sourced wikipedia article on Prosperity Theology

What you describe is one of the main reasons Jesus is not accepted as the Messiah by Jews.

The Messiah is to be one like King David. This “new kingdom” that the Messiah is to set up isn’t supposed to be some kingdom in heaven that you enjoy when you;’re dead ... it’s supposed to be an Earthly kingdom where the Jews control their territory like when King David was running the show via blessings from God.

Pretty much all religion works this way.

Joel Osteen, Benny Hin, etc are examples of guys that would consider to exploit religion. Osteen, in particular, is more of a motivational speaker and life planner. Hin is a thief.

When I talk of religion/Christianity, I’m pretty much talking about the Bible, and not various religious leaders. There’s too many directions involved. The message of Christ was not a popular one due to the major tenets being things that go against human nature and what people want.

CircleChange/9 wrote: “But the message from Yahweh is the exact opposite. Isn’t that the lesson of Job?”

That’s why I said that *I* would love it if athletes said God doesn’t care about pro sports. Nothing about the Bible in there. It would be refreshing, is all.

“What you describe is one of the main reasons Jesus is not accepted as the Messiah by Jews.”

Um, not exactly. The main reason is because the Old Testament says that when the Messiah comes, game over, world as we know it is done, all the dead rise from the graves, etc etc etc. Not simply a return to the greater kingdom of Judeah. So, to Jews of the era that stayed Jews or ignored Jesus’s apostles, it was sort of like Harold Camping and the not-end-of-the-world a few months ago, or the many many many Jesus-like Jews that cropped up over the hundreds of years before and after Jesus.

The NT basically says, “Um, JK! *Next* time the messiah comes down, it really is EOW”

or the many many many Jesus-like Jews that cropped up over the hundreds of years before and after Jesus.

That would be another reason.

There seems to be quite few different interpretations of the “the return” and/or “The Messiah” brings ... and I’m a bit fuzzy on some of them.

But, what you describe are the OT Jews taking passages/words literally and Jesus using the same words to talk about it “spiritually” (eternal life, his kingdom, etc).

The OT Jews seemed to think of everything in literal terms. The have far less literal aspects, and a whole lotta parables and “code speak”. One of the main aspects I struggled with the most in regards to Christian religion was knowing how the ANE cultures would have understood the language/context of some of the more important passages. It’s not always “what the simple text says”.

I’ve been a Christian my entire life (I’m 41), and Church, sunday school/Bible classes have been part of my life for as long as I can remember.  I’m certainly not trying to pass myself off as an expert in Biblical history or study, because I am not one, but I have recently taken a particular interest in studies that explore Biblical events in the context of the time, place, culture, etc. they happened.  I’m really just starting but so far it is fascinating and adds a new dimension that has been missing from most previous studies.