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Thursday, April 26, 2007

Thank you Justice Kennedy for your chivalry

By Tangotiger, 04:47 PM

Ruth Marcus at the Washington Post:


How nice of Justice Kennedy to look out for me.

Goodness knows, if I didn’t have the justice and his buddies hovering, I might make a terrible mistake. I mean, I’m so impulsive and muddle-headed, I sometimes don’t know what’s in my own best interest.

Luckily, the Supreme Court does.

...

“It is self-evident,” he adds, “that a mother who comes to regret her choice to abort must struggle with grief more anguished and sorrow more profound when she learns, only after the event, what she once did not know: that she allowed a doctor to pierce the skull and vacuum the fast-developing brain of her unborn child, a child assuming the human form.”

Therefore, “the State” can step in to assert the “ethical and moral concerns that justify a special prohibition.” In other words, it can protect women from the consequences they may or may not experience as a result of the ignorance from which they may or may not be suffering.

...

This is a dangerous ruling, but I have some hope that its effect will turn out to be limited. Kennedy was horrified by the partial-birth procedure, no doubt sincerely. That emotional response may not carry over into his assessment of other abortion laws.

He may, poor dear, have been so overwrought he simply wasn’t thinking straight.

If men were biologically able to conceive, men would have invented abortion procedures before they invented the wheel.  There is nothing more arrogant than one person telling another person what to do, without that first person ever being able to step into that second person’s shoes.

“Let’s free some country!” (Uhh, do those residents know how many of them are going to die?  Maybe they don’t like our plan?)

“Let’s save the fetus!” (Uhh, do you realize that women undergo a metamorphosis the like of which you can’t possibly comprehend?)

Of course someone should speak for oppressed people.  Of course someone should speak for the fetus.  Of course any and every single entity who doesn’t have the liberties that others have should have an advocate.  But the advocate is not a judge, but a stakeholder.  The advocate can’t simply apply his own principles to the entity in question.  He has to be immersed with the entity in question.

Should a liberation force stay or go?  How do I know.  And who cares what I think anyway.  If a group of people doesn’t want an occupying force, the occupiers need to leave.  Even if the “child” doesn’t know any better, and even if the “parent” will be worse off for it.  Or, admit that you are an invading and occupying force, not a liberating one.

What rights does a fetus have?  How do I know.  And who cares what I think anyway.  There are enough women in the world (3 billion, last I checked), that you can easily find 1 million women who can represent that group to debate and decide the liberties and rights of the fetus and the mother.  Women are plenty smart to decide this particular course of humanity.  If you are not a stakeholder, admit that you want to assert your power over women.

Blogging
#1          (see all posts) 2007/04/26 (Thu) @ 23:25

Yes, perhaps everyone should have every important personal decision double-checked by Justice Kennedy, just in case His Honor happens to notice us doing something that he thinks we might regret later. 

Hey, if it turns out I am smarter than Justice Kennedy, am I allowed to veto his personal decisions as he is mine? 

Because it is self-evident that a judge who comes to regret his choice to marry an average looking wife (like Judge Kennedy did) must struggle with grief more anguished and sorrow more profound when he learns, only after the event, what he once did not know: that he’s rich and famous enough to score a supermodel.

Geez.

This is one of the most moronic things I’ve heard a judge argue in a long time.  And I live in Canada, where our own Supreme Court decisions are usually at least twice as idiotic as yours.


#2          (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 13:58

How is your argument different than the argument that only those who actually play the game can determine who is a good baseball player and who is not?  It’s saying that only personal experience matters, logic and reasoning have no place in making decisions.


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 15:06

That wasn’t my argument.  I’m saying you need basis. 

If you take a 9-member Supreme Court made up entirely of men (i.e., drop Ginsberg, and replace her with the next best-qualified man), and you take a 9-member Supreme Court made up entirely of women (i.e., Ginsberg, O’Conner, et al), the decisions on virtually any case will likely be similar, be it 5/4 or 6/3 one way and 5/4 6/3 the other way.  It would be relatively “close”.  Gender is not an issue.  Logic, reasoning, wisdom are.

Except when it comes to issues that directly affect women.  On that score, the results would be all over the place.  Why is that?  Because men have no basis on issues that directly affect women.  There is a transformation that occurs with women that men cannot appreciate.

***

I have more basis than Steve Lyons as to whether you should steal 3B with 2 outs in the 9th inning and Wade Boggs at bat.  He may have experience, but I beat him everywhere else.  As does 99.99% of fans.


#4          (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 15:17

"There is a transformation that occurs with women that men cannot appreciate.”

But how do you know that men can’t appreciate it?  Aren’t you just taking the word of women saying, “you just can’t understand.” Isn’t that exactly like a grizzled old ball player telling a statistical analyzer who never played the game that stepping into the box against a major league pitcher causes a transformation that you non-jocks cannot appreciate?

It sounds like versions of the same argument to me.  I do agree that when one has absolutely no experiential basis on which to make a decision, one should tread lightly (and Kennedy didn’t even bother do that), but I don’t agree that one shouldn’t tread at all.


#5    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 15:30

There are actual physiological and pyschological changes in women, changes that are not dependent on claims from women.  As Brooke Shields once said of Tom Cruise: “I’ll go out on a limb here, and assume that he has never had post-partum depression.”

As for the grizzled veteran: whatever changes he’s undergoing would be extremely subtle, subtle enough that it would be extremely hard to detect.  It may exist, but its overall impact would be rather minor.

When I mean transformation, I really mean a transformation.  Rick Ankiel and Donnie Moore are among the few who would qualify.  And in the “transformation curve”, they barely compare to women.


#6          (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 16:08

My point is that no matter how sure Justice Kennedy is that a certain percentage of women will regret their decision to have an abortion, IT IS STILL HER DECISION. 

For most major decisions in life, we keep to the principle that the person him or herself knows best what’s right for them.  When some 80-year-old marries Anna Nicole Smith, no matter how sure we are that he’s doing something dumb, the principle we use is that it’s his life, and he has the right to make his own mistakes.

I feel quite confident that Justice Kennedy would have held to that principle on any issue other than abortion.  He would agree that it’s ludicrous to suggest that courts to overturn a personal freedom on the grounds that it looks like the person is about to make a bad decision.  But instead, it looks like he was so offended by the idea of abortion that he lost his sense of logic and justice. 

Louis, what kind of things do you willingly do in your own life that Justice Kennedy thinks you may regret later?  Do you want him to bar you from doing them?


#7    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 16:28

Well said, Phil.

Knight Kennedy invoked his chivalry over what women may be feeling when they make their decisions, and projecting over that his own personal opinion.

His comments did not even center on the issue of the rights of the fetus.  It centered on the capacity of women to make a decision!  And as Phil said, it doesn’t even have to be a rational or reasonable decision either, since it’s her decision to make, according to the current case laws. 

Even if Knight Kennedy insisted on rationality in decision-making, he presumes that she can’t be rational in any capacity, that she was ignorant as to what the doctor was doing to the “child assuming human form”.

He had no basis for his comments.

***

My general opinion on the “rights of the fetus” is that whatever decision is made, that there are no second-class humans.  Whenever it is that a fetus is determined to be human, it aquires all human rights from that point onwards. 

What does this mean?  If a fetus-now-human was a product of rape or incest, since it is now human, it cannot be aborted.  A person aborting the fetus-now-human would have to be considered a murderer.  A fetus-now-human would be protected by the government, and earn all benefits of citizens, including whatever medical care it can get.  If a fetus of non-Americans is conceived in the US, and its determination of being human is while the mother is in the US, guess what… you have an American citizen, even if the actual birth takes place outside the US.  This is a logistical nightmare, but again, no second-class humans.

The current rule for a fetus becoming a human is when it draws its first breath outside the womb.  One rule that I’ve used is when there is brain activity (which I think is around 7 weeks).  But, in all reality, what I think about where to draw the line is irrelevant.  Others would say upon conception.

Whatever the rule, it has to be based on the human-or-not-human line.  And not, the “full human”, “partial human” that some would prefer to compromise on.

Even the “health of the mother” wouldn’t be a valid exception.  If a mother and kid are drowning, and a person could only save one, it’s the kid who gets saved.  Preserving the child trumps the adult.  So, once a fetus is deemed human, it deserves human protection.


#8          (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 18:01

I don’t mean to defend Kennedy.  He was far too dismissive.  My only point is that men, as well as women, when elected / appointed to positions of authority ought to be allowed to make decisions regarding abortion--as long as they make reasonable decisions.  I am not saying that Kennedy made a reasonable decision here.  My point is that Tango’s response seems to go so far to say that men are categorically unqualified to make decisions regarding abortion--even if those decisions are eminently reasonable. 

But, now I see that’s not what he was saying.  He was directly challenging the reasonableness of the basis for Kennedy’s opinion.  That’s certainly fair.

As for Phil’s question as to what other personal freedom’s Kennedy might not allow me to take.  I can think of several.  The personal freedom to ingest any substance I want.  The personal freedom to hire myself out for work at less than the minimum wage.  The personal freedom to murder my neighbor…

There are many personal freedoms that society decides people shouldn’t have.  (And, indeed, I believe our society has taken too many away--but that’s not my argument now.) Some have argued that restricting personal freedoms is the point of a society.  I don’t care to argue that point, I would only point to the fact that there is currently no society that grants me every personal freedom one may wish to have.  I see no reason abortion can’t be on the table as a personal freedom that society can restrict, so long as society makes that decision reasonably.


#9    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 18:37

Your personal freedom starts at the point someone else’s starts.  So, murdering your neighbor is out.

***

I am challenging his reasonableness.  However, I am also challenging a man’s right on something he can’t comprehend.  Because of the incredible bias a man has vis-a-vis women, why take a chance when you have 9 just-as-qualified women who can make the decision.  Given the choice between the 9 male top justices and the 9 top female justices, whatever extra advantage the men may have is completely overshadowed by the fact that their gender can’t appreciate the transformation of a women’s body and mind when pregnant.


#10    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 18:54

I should clarify that it’s obviously not *all* men.  But, seeing someone in the power he is in treating women as he is, is extremely disturbing.  Not presuming that a woman is an ignorant irrational person should be a requirement as a judge.  It doesn’t seem to be.  So, why take that chance?  Would any top female justice have ever uttered those words?

Woman also think about being pregnant all their lives, whether it’s them, or a friend, or otherwise.  They have an experience and wisdom that men simply can’t hope to acquire.  Possibly being pregnant is something that they carry with them every single day.  Men think about it when they think about starting a family (or when pundits bring it up).  It is not a part of their fabric otherwise.

Knight Kennedy talking about scatterbrain women is like Pyscho Lyons trying to steal 3rd with one out to go in the game, and Wade Boggs at the plate.  One would hope that their lifelong experience would guide them, but sometimes they act like scatterbrains.  We don’t need to chance something that is that important to women to consider.


#11          (see all posts) 2007/05/16 (Wed) @ 22:42

Louis (#8),

I wasn’t asking what freedoms you shouldn’t have.  I am asking what freedoms you would like taken away *on the grounds that people who do that thing might regret your actions later.*

Of all the actions you are personally and actually going to commit tomorrow, which ones do you think it would be legitimate to have Justice Kennedy second-guess and forbid?  And remember, when you answer the question, that Justice Kennedy doesn’t know you—he would be forbidding your action based on what he thinks about men in general.


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