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Thursday, May 19, 2011

Small sample size BABIP

By Tangotiger, 09:56 AM

First you have to understand that I love Jered Weaver.  He’s a great pitcher.  I thought the biggest injustice in the Cy Young voting is how he was an after-thought when he should have been one step behind Felix Hernandez.  It’s why I don’t think that Felix’s win was such a saber-revelation, since Felix won it based on ERA and IP and K.  Weaver was a step behind Felix overall.  If Felix did not pitch in 2010, the saber case would have fallen strongly on Weaver (also had the same 13-12 record).  And he finished in the Cy Young race, as if sabermetrics had just a small impact.

On April 29, 2011, I wandered over to HalosHeaven to see what they were talking about with regards to Jered Weaver, and his fantastic start.  His BABIP was exceptionally low, much below his career .280.  But, someone there thought he reached some new level of talent.  I asked him to give me an over/under line for rest of season, and he proposed .265.  I of course took the over.  (At least he didn’t propose something ridiculously low.  Proposing .265 is still pretty low, but not obscenely low.)

In the four start since I made my post, his BABIP is .305.

This is really how you sell people on this.  You make them bet on it.  They have to have a vested interest, where they are going to follow the situation.

It’s not like we saberists just decided to believe that a low BABIP is unsustainable.  We studied the issue.  We relied on actual past performance.  We relied on the data that the players themselves produced.  All we are saying is: here, take a look at the weight of history, and before you decide to bet against what’s always happened, YOU tell us why this time, it’s “different”.  Because I can guarantee you, everyone thinks their particular case is different, when in reality, you are going to lose far more than you are going to win if you bet on your insights.  Indeed, it’s not even your insight, but on your interpretation of the numbers you see.

Had the person made the bet based on a change in Jered Weaver’s mechanics or approach, that would be one thing.  But the way it always works is that everyone understands numbers enough to be dangerous.

Saberists are the Amazing Randis to the Uri Gellers out there.

And come next April, and for every April until the day I die, there will always be someone who will have a BABIP of .220 after his first 6 starts, and a very small percentage of them will sustain anything close to that for the rest of the season.  And in none of those situations should you make an even (50/50) bet. 


#1    Rick      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 11:47

The Socratic method is highly underutilized.  But don’t underestimate the willingness of people to stubbornly cling to their assertions even with their bets leave them empty handed.


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 11:56

Excellent, I didn’t know Socrates had his own method named.

Definitely, it’s a method I highly appreciate.  It’s really what we try to do, by asking questions, and bringing the reader on a journey for answers.  This way, everyone is exposed to the same evidence, and we can look at it whichever way each of us individually wants, but we move forward.  We don’t need to continually reconsider the issue.


#3    Ron Fisher      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 12:47

Were it not for saber metrics, wherever would basic statistics be?


#4          (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 13:14

Aren’t hedge funds essentially people betting they can beat the averages?  Hopefully hedge fund traders are putting in more research than posters on HaloHeaven.  But isn’t the whole point of a hedge fund to find alphas and then cancel out the systematic risk? 

I didn’t major in finance or anything, so I might know just enough to make me wrong on this too.


#5    rluzinski      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 14:02

I have a friend who is constantly soliciting my opinion on baseball matters.  A typical question might be, “How many HR’s do you think Fielder will finish with this year?” When I give him my answer, he’ll often respond with something like, “It’s going to be lower than that!  Come on, bet me $10!  Don’t be a chicken!” I try to explain to him that if that’s my best guess, I think there are even odds of it being higher or lower than that.  It’s my personal over/under.

If this guy gave you his personal over/under, why do you assume that he would automatically want the under?


#6    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 14:59

He’s giving me his personal over/under, and I took the over.

Now, to be fair, what I can do is to take .270 as the over, and he gets not only his fair line (.265 and under), but also a “vig” at .266 to .270.


#7    TOLAXOR      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 15:04

PREDICTION MARKETS FTW!!!!


#8    rluzinski      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 15:06

My issue with adding a vig to my buddy’s challenges is that the resulting 53% chance (or whatever) of me winning $10 would not be worth the 47% chance of having to hear him tell me that he just “proved” that he’s a baseball guru and I can shove my spreadsheets up my ass.  I’d have to juice it to perhaps 2:1 in my favor to even consider taking it.


#9    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 15:24

I agree that by itself, we’ve proven nothing.  We need to do a series of bets here to try to prove something.

In any case, that fellow setting the line at .265, and me accepting to even push it to .270, with my expectation that Weaver’s true talent is probably in the low .280s, that means I probably have a 65% chance of winning.


#10    Sky      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 15:56

Try to take as high a cutoff as you can get. Once the other guy starts pushing back, that’s really what he thinks the future BABIP will be.


#11    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/09/06 (Tue) @ 15:14

I just thought I’d post an update here: Weaver’s BABIP since I asked for a prediction is .267!

He proposed .265, which I thought was pretty low.  The league BABIP is overall lower this year than over Weaver’s career.  His career number is about 18-20 points below league average, and right now, he’s sitting at 26 points below league average.

So, that commenter may come out on the winning end of the bet.

That’s why, when you make bets like this kids, you need to make 10-15 bets.  Sometimes, you’ll lose a few close ones.


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