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Tuesday, February 09, 2010

Sabre-nerd FIP fight: IP or PA, MaryAnn or Ginger?  A Primer on creating a metric

By Tangotiger, 04:04 PM

Matt noted that using IP (instead of PA) in the denominator of FIP to look wrong because IP includes batted ball as outs, and the point of FIP is to ignore batted ball as hits or outs.  He is 100% correct about that.

However, is FIP “wrong” for having IP in the denominator?  No, and I’ll describe for you the reason.  First, let’s start off with creating a baseline.  It’s not that important what we have in the baseline, but it gives us a starting point.  This is what I use:

IP    BB    K     HR     BABIP
9    3    6     1     0.300

We have a 9 inning game, with 3 walks, 6 K, 1 HR and a .300 BABIP.  With 27 outs and 6 from K, that gives us 21 outs.  For the purposes of this baseline, I’ll treat 95.24% of those outs from batters, and 4.76% from runners.  So, this gives us 20 outs from batters and 1 out from runners.  This is what we have so far:

IP    BB    K     HR     BABIP     BIPouts 
9    3    6     1     0.300     20

In order to get a .300 BABIP with 20 BIP outs, we need to have 8.57 BIP hits.  That is, 8.57 / (20 + 8.57) = .300.  We have this:

IP    BB    K     HR     BABIP     BIPouts     BIPhits
9    3    6     1     0.300     20.00     8.6

The number of batters faced is simply BB+K+HR+BIPouts+BIPhits.  In this case, it’s 38.87.  We are now here:

IP    BB    K     HR     BABIP     BIPouts     BIPhits    PA
9    3    6     1     0.300     20.00     8.6     38.9

How many runs should that line produce?  Using a short-cut BaseRuns formula, I get 4.31.  Again, not too important what the BaseRuns formula is.  I just need a baseline.  And FIP comes in at exactly 4.31.  So, we are now calibrated.

Now, what happens if I change K to 2?  In order to get every to make sense, I get this:

IP    BB    K     HR     BABIP     BIPouts     BIPhits    PA
9    3    2     1     0.300     23.81     10.2     40.3

We get more BIPouts, more BIPhits, and more PA.  The number of runs scored according to BaseRuns is 5.20.  FIP?  5.20.

Here is how BaseRuns and FIP compares with the K value changing from 2 to 12:

IP    BB    K     HR     BABIP     BIPouts     BIPhits    PA    R    FIP    diff
9    3    2     1     0.300     23.81     10.2     40.3      5.20      5.20      0.00 
9    3    4     1     0.300     21.90     9.4     39.6      4.75      4.76      
(0.01)
9    3    6     1     0.300     20.00     8.6     38.9      4.31      4.31      (0.00)
9    3    8     1     0.300     18.10     7.8     38.2      3.89      3.87      0.03 
9    3    10     1     0.300     16.19     6.9     37.4      3.50      3.42      0.07 
9    3    12     1     0.300     14.29     6.1     36.7      3.12      2.98      0.15

The third-to-last column in R (baseruns), the 2nd-to-last column is FIP, and the last column is the difference.  We see therefore that up until about K=10, the FIP equation holds extremely well, even though it uses IP, not PA, in its denominator.  But, as Matt correctly points out, it SHOULD be PA, not IP.  And, it’s apparent we are going to pay a price when K > 12.  So, yes, FIP will breakdown at those extremes.

Now, what if we DID use PA instead of IP?  What happens to FIP?  The new formula for FIP becomes the following for the numerator: 13*HR + 3*BB - 1.93*SO.  So the “2” becomes “1.93”.  And for the denominator, we get: PA*.23.  So, we turn IP into PA*.23.  This becomes our new results (and I extended the chart to K=20):

K    R    FIP(IP)    diff    FIP(PA)    diff
2     5.20      5.20      0.00      5.10      0.11 
4     4.75      4.76      
(0.01)     4.71      0.04 
6     4.31      4.31      
(0.00)     4.31      0.00 
8     3.89      3.87      0.03      3.90      
(0.00)
10     3.50      3.42      0.07      3.46      0.03 
12     3.12      2.98      0.15      3.02      0.11 
14     2.77      2.53      0.24      2.55      0.22 
16     2.45      2.09      0.36      2.07      0.38 
18     2.15      1.64      0.50      1.56      0.59 
20     1.88      1.20      0.68      1.03      0.85

The first four columns is a repeat of the previous table, which shows the FIP equation based on IP.  The second-to-last column shows FIP based on the PA-based equation, and diff is the difference between BaseRuns and the new FIP.  Now, we see that either equation is pretty close.  There’s really not much to choose from.

So, if I’ve got a choice to use 2 or 1.93 in the numerator, I’ll go for 2.  And if I have a choice between IP or PA*.23, I’ll use IP in the denominator.

And that’s why FIP uses what it does.


#1    Xeifrank      (see all posts) 2010/02/09 (Tue) @ 16:52

Great!  This is why I read and love this blog.
vr, Xei


#2    David Pinto      (see all posts) 2010/02/09 (Tue) @ 17:00

Mary Ann.


#3          (see all posts) 2010/02/09 (Tue) @ 17:53

Great stuff. This site is the best resource for newbies as upper level saber reading. 

Can I ask how you come up with the coefficients for FIP (IP) and then alter them for FIP(PA)?


#4    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/02/09 (Tue) @ 18:04

I held HR and BB constant in both equations.

There were 38.87 PA in 9 IP, so 9/38.87= .23

And then I best-fitted the coefficient for SO, to get the 1.93.


#5          (see all posts) 2010/02/09 (Tue) @ 21:46

It holds up pretty well across the extremes of BABIPs.

Using BB% = 9%, K% = 17%, HR% = 3%, and constant portion of FIP 3.2,

BABIP FIP
0.250 4.24
0.260 4.25
0.270 4.27
0.280 4.28
0.290 4.29
0.300 4.30
0.310 4.32
0.320 4.33
0.330 4.34
0.340 4.36
0.350 4.37

In 2009, there is only 1 pitcher with at least 100 IP outside that range, Manny Parra at .365.

To show my work, the equation I’m using is

FIP = (3 / (K% + 1 - BABIP)) * (13*HR% + 3*BB% - 2K%) + 3.2


#6          (see all posts) 2010/02/10 (Wed) @ 09:28

Sorry, slight mistake in that formula.  Should be

FIP = (3 / (K% + (1-HR%+BB%+K%)* (1 - BABIP))) * (13*HR% + 3*BB% - 2K%) + 3.2

Giving a difference of about 0.15. 

BABIP FIP
0.250 4.57
0.260 4.58
0.270 4.59
0.280 4.61
0.290 4.62
0.300 4.64
0.310 4.65
0.320 4.67
0.330 4.69
0.340 4.70
0.350 4.72


#7    jojo      (see all posts) 2010/02/10 (Wed) @ 16:29

"So, if I’ve got a choice to use 2 or 1.93 in the numerator, I’ll go for 2.  And if I have a choice between IP or PA*.23, I’ll use IP in the denominator.”
Is this simply because 2 is easier to type than 1.93? Didn’t you once say something about prefering the messy truth to the tidy lie? smile


#8    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2010/02/10 (Wed) @ 16:57

I know that I am able to remember the FIP formula without having to consult a reference, and that’s partly due to having whole number constants (well, 3 of them, anyway).  That’s useful. 

If you want the messy truth, use the full DIPS ERA formula or something similar.


#9    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/02/10 (Wed) @ 17:31

jojo: nice smile

FIP was created SOLELY as a shortcut for DIPS.  So, it doesn’t try to represent itself as anything other than that.  Shortcuts don’t need precision, just accuracy.

I can see how MAtt or others may want something else, but that’s not how FIP rolls.


#10    jojo      (see all posts) 2010/02/10 (Wed) @ 18:07

#8 and #9

Ahhh, I wasn’t recollecting purpose of FIP. As a shortcut, I agree 2 is better that 1.93.


#11    dave smyth      (see all posts) 2010/08/15 (Sun) @ 11:05

Tango/#4 wrote:

I held HR and BB constant in both equations.

There were 38.87 PA in 9 IP, so 9/38.87= .23

And then I best-fitted the coefficient for SO, to get the 1.93.
-----------------------------
My question is, why is it correct to hold BB and HR constant? Doesn’t that imply that when a pitcher doesn’t strike a batter out, he instead allows a BIP? Why couldn’t he also allow a BB or HR, in his usual frequency?


#12    dave smyth      (see all posts) 2010/08/17 (Tue) @ 15:05

I was hoping for a response to #11.


#13    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/08/17 (Tue) @ 16:33

You are correct that I should have held BB/PA and HR/PA constant.


#14    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/08/17 (Tue) @ 16:34

I should also say: good eye!


#15    dave smyth      (see all posts) 2010/08/17 (Tue) @ 16:59

What I’m getting at is, using the run values for FIP, we have 1.4, .33, and -.22. For the HR and BB these are the usual values, but for the SO the factor is twice what it ‘should’ be (-.11 absolute run value). I understand the math of how the .22 is arrived at by substituting a BIP for a SO. But is that really the correct way to do the analysis. Why not just use the .11? I just want to see the explanation.


#16    dave smyth      (see all posts) 2010/08/18 (Wed) @ 19:21

Bumping this again in order to get a reply to my post #15. Is there a reason, or is it just that my post gets lost because of the numerous posts that come after?


#17    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/08/18 (Wed) @ 19:49

I have to take a bit of time to construct an answer, that’s all…


#18    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/09/10 (Fri) @ 15:38

David,

I’m trying to come up with a clear reason that doesn’t involve a lot of math.  This page does a good job on that side:

http://members.cox.net/~harlowk22/DIPS-GS.html

Otherwise, if you construct a simple model using BaseRuns as the estimator, this is what I get: starting with a 3BB, 6SO, 1HR, 9IP line (20BIPouts, 8.6 BIPhits, .300 BABIP), a simple BsR will give you 4.30 runs.

Now, if you hold BB/PA and HR/PA, and BABIP constant, and change SO to 0, you’ll get 5.80 runs, or 1.50 more runs for 6 fewer K, or 0.25 runs per K.

If you instead change SO to 12, you’ll get 3.00 runs, or 1.30 fewer runs for 6 more K, or 0.217 runs per K. 

Splitting the difference, and each K is worth 0.23 runs.


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