THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

Friday, September 23, 2011

Sabermetric scorn for the triple crown?

By Tangotiger, 01:15 PM

David at ESPN:

Sure, we all know batting average and RBIs can be overrated, but if Kemp could somehow pull this off, it would be an awesome accomplishment. A fun accomplishment, one to be appreciated, not sabermetrically scorned.

Yes, if you treat it as a fun accomplishment, then who am I to ruin your fun? Because that’s exactly what a triple crown is: a fun accomplishment.

Scorn comes into play when you turn that fun accomplishment into something more real. The reality is that winning the triple crown is a byproduct. Matt Kemp has a WAR on Fangraphs of 8.2, whereas the next 5 best players are between 6.4 and 6.9. WAR at Baseball-Reference has him at 9.6, and then next 3 best are at 6.1 to 7.2. Matt Kemp is demolishing all non-pitchers in the National Conference.

Matt Kemp’s WAR is not only a fun accomplishment, but a real accomplishment, one to be appreciated and not ignorantly scorned.

• Sabermetrics • Awards

#1 David (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 13:29

That article linked to this video:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7008315/mlb-moneyball-solid-hit-casual-fans

Don’t know if you’ve watched it, but I was pretty impressed with Bobby Valentine’s knowledge, and he seemed to really know what he was talking about. I no longer have cable (haven’t for two years, actually) so I don’t know if this is a new development, but it’s certainly a revelation to me. Interesting stuff.

#2 Tangotiger (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 13:33

Blocked for me…

#3 Chris (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 14:32

I have no scorn for the triple crown. I do hold a lot towards hitting for the cycle as if it is a major accomplishment.

ESPN: I do not need an e-mail alert that Pablo Sandoval hit for the cycle...regardless of how bizarre it is that he’d be the one to do it.

#4 Devon (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 15:53

I’d love to see the triple crown redefined as OBP (instead of BA), WPA (instead of HR), and RC (instead of RBI). Come to think of it… Has anyone ever led the league in all those categories in a single season?

#5 Jordan (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 16:26

4/Devon

Looks like:

Bautista 2011
Votto 2010
Cabrera 2010
Bonds 2004
Bonds 2002
Bonds 2001
Giambi 2001
Helton 2000
McGwire 1998
Thomas 1997
Bonds & Edgar 1995
Thomas 1994
Bonds 1992
Bonds & Thomas 1992
Bonds 1991
Henderson 1990
Boggs 1983
Schmidt 1981
Brett 1980
Carew 1977
Morgan 1976
Morgan 1975
Allen 1972
Murcey 1971
McCovey 1969
Yaz 1967
Ted 1954
Ted 1951

WPA only goes back to 1950.

#6 (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 16:28

Multiple Appearances:

Bonds 6
Thomas 3
Ted 2
Morgan 2

#7 Jordan (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 16:29

Sorry for multiple posts for the same point - all info from b-r.com.

#8 Devon (see all posts) 2011/09/23 (Fri) @ 17:04

Aahhh maybe that wouldn’t make such a great triple crown then… it’s done too often & people wouldn’t see the greatness in achieving it. I like it anyway, and I find it very interesting that Yaz’s official triple crown season was in the list.

#9 pierre (see all posts) 2011/09/24 (Sat) @ 10:16

the triple crown is very real, I think. More “real” than leading in WAR to the extent that there’s more uncertainty around WAR rankings than counting stat/BA rankings.

I also don’t think it’s a byproduct- more the other way around, imo. That is, “leading in WAR is a function of winning the triple crown” is a truer statement than “winning the triple crown is a function of leading the league in WAR”.

Probably the point is that the triple crown has no particular meaning (other than that it would be really hard to win it without having had a fantastic year).

#10 Devon (see all posts) 2011/09/24 (Sat) @ 10:39

@#9… I don’t think I understand, or I don’t think you understand WAR.

#11 Tangotiger (see all posts) 2011/09/24 (Sat) @ 10:41

Pierre, I meant that leading in the triple crown has no real meaning by itself to how much win impact your performance has had.

#12 pierre (see all posts) 2011/09/24 (Sat) @ 11:00

fair enough. It’s arbitrary. I was reading the post too literally.

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THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

Friday, September 23, 2011

Sabermetric scorn for the triple crown?

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