THE BOOK cover
The Unwritten Book is Finally Written!
An in-depth analysis of: The sacrifice bunt, batter/pitcher matchups, the intentional base on balls, optimizing a batting lineup, hot and cold streaks, clutch performance, platooning strategies, and much more.
Read Excerpts & Customer Reviews

Buy The Book from Amazon


SABR101 required reading if you enter this site. Check out the Sabermetric Wiki. And interesting baseball books.
MOST RECENT ARTICLES
MAIL : You ask | We say

Advanced


THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

<< Back to main

Thursday, June 26, 2008

Real change in talent levels

By Tangotiger, 10:53 AM

Dave describes the changes in fastball speed for Verlander.  Yesterday, Josh shows us the standard deviation of a pitcher’s fastball speed:

I thought the average would have been 1.0, but it is actually 1.35.  That’s on a pitch-by-pitch basis.  On a start-by-start basis, the spread will likely be less than 0.5 standard deviations.  If Verlander is really throwing 3 MPH different in two separate months, this is an enormous piece of information to have.  Basically, we’ve got two Verlanders.

The question to ask: how transient is the lower fastball speed?  Is it like a weather pattern, like a tornado, that would basically be random, and therefore, we don’t expect for the tornado to reappear at the same spot.  Or say like lightning hitting the same spot twice.  Or, could this possible recur, and therefore, we need to give say 90% weight to Verlander-we-know and 10% for the Verlander-who-sucks. 

In similar spirit, but not as dramatic, is the drop in fastball speed of Barry Zito between 2005 and 2007: 2.8 mph in two years.  That’s fairly sizeable.  So, when you see his FIP go from 4.34 to 4.82, that is more “real” than someone else who had the same drop in FIP, but who did not have a change in fastball speeds.

Remember, all performance data really is a manifestation of the context and the talent level of the player.  We are inferring the talent level of the player after understanding the environment in which he plays.  We are presuming that the change in talent level of any given player follows the same pattern as any other player, if we don’t know any better.

But, we now know better.  We know that something drastic changed in Verlander and Zito.  We don’t know why it changed.  We don’t know how persistent or transient it is.  We don’t know if it’s a shift like global warming, or a blip like a bolt of lightning.  All of these numbers we have, the tools numbers, like fastball speed, and curveball movements, are themselves just a manifestation of the core to the player: how strong, smart, and coordinated he is.  That is, we infer from the fastball speed and curve movements certain things about the player. 

It all comes down to tools.  If we were god-like, we wouldn’t need to know about any performance results.  That’s what scouting is all about: how god-like can we be in establishing a person’s core true talent, and how much do we need to infer based on the performance results, either at the toolsy-level (fastball speed, bat speed) or at the results-level (BB/PA, BABIP)?

The inference at the results-level gets us most of the way there.  But, in some cases, like Verlander and Zito, it may fail us.  So, we need to get down to the toolsy-level.  And in even smaller cases, we need to get down to the core level (like Ankiel).


#1          (see all posts) 2008/06/26 (Thu) @ 14:14

If someone could please copy this down and be sure to show it to everyone who blindly asserts that analysts like Tango lack an appropriately holistic understanding of how to properly contextualize and analyze baseball performance, that would be tremendously helpful. Thanks.

Just a fantastic summation of a basic idea about baseball analysis—not “sabermetrics”—that I’m afraid few people understand.


#2    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2008/06/26 (Thu) @ 16:57

Here’s what PITCHf/x data we have on Verlander’s pitch speed:

http://fastballs.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/verlander_speed_vs_time.jpg

The 2006 data is from the playoffs, where his average fastball speed was 94.7 mph. 

In 2007, PITCHf/x recorded his average fastball speed at 94.1, but that’s probably a little low to be representative since his fastball speed seemed to take a hit after July, and that’s the period from which we have most of our PITCHf/x data.  His June-July 2007 average fastball speed was 95.5, and his August-September 2007 fastball speed was 93.3.

In 2008, his average fastball speed has been 93.4.  Does his improved speed in his last start (June 22) bode well, or is it merely a blip?

I’m not sure I see as direct a correlation between fastball speed and performance for Verlander as Dave Cameron does.  I’m not sure if I see a correlation at all.


Page 1 of 1 pages


Name (required)
E-Mail (optional)
Website (optional)

<< Back to main


Latest...

COMMENTS

Aug 31 15:28
Fans Scouting Report: Update

Sep 02 14:26
Mail: rWAR v fWAR

Sep 02 14:15
WOWY Teachers

Sep 02 13:37
Who’s Waldo?

Sep 02 13:00
It’s hard to beat the crowd (Vegas in this case) no matter how smart you think you are

Sep 02 12:05
Could Rob Dibble have been a comp for Strasburg?

Sep 02 08:36
Team Elin

Sep 02 01:19
Can someone tell me why Trevor Hoffman is still allowed to pitch?

Sep 01 23:16
Strasburg II

Sep 01 22:11
PITCHf/x Summit 2010 - Recaps