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Friday, October 02, 2009

Pitch sequencing with Mariano Rivera

By Tangotiger, 01:58 PM

Great stuff from Dave.  The reason that Mo provides such a great study is that he only has one pitch type, so the only thing we have to worry about is location.  So, Dave gives us the payoff.  First, he tells us how frequently he pitches inside, given that he’s following a previous inside pitch or a previous outside pitch:

vLHB vRHB
all 0.58 0.45
following inside pitch 0.63 0.55
following outside pitch 0.40 0.37

Now, those numbers, by themselves, tell us nothing.  We don’t know how often he should pitch inside, if the previous pitch was an inside pitch.  Is 63% good?  Should it be 50%?  75%?  Exactly what is the batter thinking it should be?

Well, Dave does the right thing by telling us the run value of that next pitch.  Here it is against LHH, as run values per 100 pitches (roughly a 6 inning game):

rv100 vLHBs
inside outside
following inside pitch -3.4 -3.9
following outside pitch -2.3 -2.8

We see that his outside pitches (the more negative the better) have more value than his inside pitches.  Not much more (and Dave said it’s not stastically significant).  To the extent that the differences are real, then Mo should throw a bit more to the outside than he does (whether the previous pitch was inside or outside) against LHH.  Since he throws an inside pitch 63% of the time when the previous pitch was inside, maybe he should cut that down to 60% (just guessing).  And if he throws inside 40% of the time following an outside pitch, maybe he should bring that down to 37% or something.

I should note that it is CRITICAL to figure out the talent level of the batters at this point.  It’s all well-and-fine to show the values Dave shows, but we need to know what kind of hitters he’s throwing at.  If for example he throws disproportionately inside to good hitters, then that’s why the run values on inside pitches don’t look as good as outside pitches. 

But, this is blow-my-mind numbers:

rv100 vRHBs
inside outside
following inside pitch -1.7 -0.4
following outside pitch 1.4 -2.7

That is a huge difference, and likely impossible to link to the pool of batters.  Focus on the last line.  When he throws outside, when he goes outside-outside, he’s a monster.  When he throws outside-inside, he’s terrible.  He needs to cut down his outside-inside sequencing.  In his first table, Dave shows that outside-inside against RHH happens 37% of the time (that is, given that the previous pitch was outside, he will throw inside 37% of the time).  That number is way too high.

HOWEVER, say that he drops that down to 20% or 15%.  Guess what happens?  His run value will improve from +1.4 runs to, say -0.2 runs.  But, his -2.7 will worsen to say -1.7.  Or something.  Whatever.  Therefore, it’s very easy for me to say that he needs to cut that his outside-inside sequencing to RHH.  But, we also need to know what happens to the effectiveness of his outside-outside sequencing.  His tremendous results on the outside-outside may be directly caused by his horrible outside-inside, as batters look for outside-inside a bit more because they know Mo is vulnerable there, and therefore, leave outside-outside for Mo to exploit.

This is the most beautiful part of baseball: game theory between batter and pitcher.


#1    Mike      (see all posts) 2009/10/02 (Fri) @ 14:53

The other important possibility is that he is trying to pound the outside against RHB and many of his inside pitches are cutters which fail to cut properly.


#2    Dave Allen      (see all posts) 2009/10/02 (Fri) @ 14:57

Tom,

Sorry I had the numbers flipped on the second chart you show. These are the correct numbers.

rv100 vLHBs
                         inside  outside
following inside pitch    -3.4    -3.9
following outside pitch   -2.3    -2.8 

It doesn’t change much.  Generally his cutter is better throw to his glove-side (inside to LHBs and outside to RHBs).  Sorry for that mistake.  The other ones are correct.

You are very right that I should have checked the pool of batters.  If I get a chance I will go back and do that.


#3          (see all posts) 2009/10/02 (Fri) @ 15:34

@Mike, that’s rather unlikely, but it’s easily provable-all someone would have to do is check the movement of the RHB pitches that end of inside.  But if i had to bet, this isn’t the case...i mean mariano shows such control to LHBs, why wouldnt he show this to RHBs as well?


#4    dan      (see all posts) 2009/10/02 (Fri) @ 20:06

Mike--

His cutter only breaks a few inches, not the entire width of the plate. Also, his natural “fastball” is a cutter (he uses a 4-seam grip). Essentially he does nothing but throw the ball and it cuts left. So in his case, a poorly executed 4-seam fastball would turn into a cutter, not the other way around.


#5    Johnny Twisto      (see all posts) 2009/10/02 (Fri) @ 20:49

Many of his inside pitches to RHB are sinkers.


#6          (see all posts) 2009/10/02 (Fri) @ 21:40

I could have sworn a THT article a while back said that he threw 2/3 cutters and 1/3 non-cutters to RHB… so I’m not sure the cutter is his ONLY pitch, even though that’s so commonly said.


#7    Anthony      (see all posts) 2009/10/03 (Sat) @ 14:40

Yeah, Rivera throws a cutter and a two-seam fastball (which shows in the low whiff% and high gb% for the rhb-FA column).

The backdoor cutter to lefties has some fascinating numbers. The low 18% oswing % and the high 36% called strike % make sense, since lefties will give up on it thinking it’s outside. But I’m not sure why it gets so many grounders (69%). One would think an outside fastball with very little downward movement would stay in the air.


#8    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2009/10/03 (Sat) @ 18:24

Dan/4, it’s true that he uses a four-seam grip with his cutter, but he shifts the ball over in his hand. I think that’s pretty typical for a cutter grip, actually.  So it’s not accurate to say he does nothing with the ball to make it cut.  He holds it off center.

Johnny/5 and Anthony/7, I don’t think it’s accurate, or maybe it’s just insufficient, to say he throws a two-seam fastball.  His grip for his second fastball is interesting--it’s not really a typical two-seam or four-seam grip.  But it has typical four-seam movement, so it makes the most sense to me to call it a four-seamer.

Here’s his cutter grip:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0egS2XH0cH5fC/610x.jpg

Here are two views of his other fastball grip:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06OhfhGftM0Y8/610x.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01s9e5hgUp44z/610x.jpg

He’s kinda grabbing one seam with his middle finger on his other fastball.  Call it what you want, I guess.


#9    Johnny Twisto      (see all posts) 2009/10/04 (Sun) @ 17:48

It does not have typical four-seam movement.  He throws a pitch which moves down and left-to-right.  That seems like two-seam movement to me.  How he holds it, I have no idea, but it acts like a sinker.


#10    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2009/10/04 (Sun) @ 20:02

His “other” fastball has about 2 to 7 inches of left-to-right movement.  That’s very typical of a four-seamer.  A typical two-seamer has more like 6 to 14 inches of left-to-right movement.

You can see exactly how he holds it between the two pictures I linked in #8 and the second image here:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/what-should-we-call-riveras-other-fastball/

I looked through more than 100 images of his pitch grips, and I only saw the two variations.  PITCHf/x data backs this up.


#11    dan      (see all posts) 2009/10/04 (Sun) @ 22:06

Compared to his cutter, his 4-seamer looks like a 2-seamer. That’s what people are seeing.


#12    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2009/10/04 (Sun) @ 22:15

Here’s Rivera’s spin deflection graph for this year (through Sept. 20):

rivera_spin_deflection_2009.jpg

In some ways, he has two unique pitches.  His cutter has a lot of hop and cut compared to most cutters in the league.  That’s because he gets a lot of spin from his grip.  With the way he has his fingertips on the seam, they can pop when he releases and give it that extra oomph of spin.

His other fastball (one-seamer/whatever), on the other hand, doesn’t get nearly as much spin because he doesn’t have that seam to leverage against for a backspin pop on release.  So it has very little hop.  He can, however, use pressure from the finger that’s laying up against the seam lengthwise to vary the amount of sidespin he puts on it.  But he doesn’t get a ton of either sinking/tailing action like you’d see from a two-seamer or much hop like you’d see from a four-seamer.

I’m not sure why he chooses that grip, actually, because he sacrifices a lot of movement.  Perhaps it’s because it’s simply a small rotation of the ball from his cutter grip?


#13    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2009/10/04 (Sun) @ 23:06

By way of comparison, here’s the spin deflection graph for someone who has a more typical repertoire: Luke Hochevar.  I’ve shown his two-seamer, four-seamer, and cutter.

hochevar_fastball_spin_deflection_2009.jpg

Note how much less cut and hop he gets on his cutter compared to Rivera, and how little movement Rivera’s other fastball has compared to Hochevar’s four-seamer and two-seamer.


#14    Nick      (see all posts) 2009/10/04 (Sun) @ 23:26

Mike - I’ve been meaning to ask you how you are able to differentiate been pitches that are right on the borders of other pitches.  For example, at around (-6,7) on the above chart you have three different pitches labeled, and there are other places that have overlope as well. 

I know you use Spin RPM’s as well, but that doesn’t seem to tell much different of a story, just looking at Hochevar.  Are you using some sort of algorithm or are you manually going game by game to find better clusters (I know Harry P. does that for certain pitchers)?


#15    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2009/10/04 (Sun) @ 23:42

are you manually going game by game to find better clusters

Yes, in some cases.  Separating Hochevar’s fastballs is one such case.


#16    Anthony      (see all posts) 2009/10/05 (Mon) @ 11:36

From Mike’s link: It’s the one others call a two-seamer, though I’m not sure why.

We call it a two-seamer because every Yankees’ broadcaster and writer says it’s a two-seamer. Verducci even mentions it in the recent SI cover story he just wrote about Rivera. Maybe they’re all wrong (Mussina switched to a regular curve long before people stopped calling it a knuckle-curve, for instance)...just saying that’s what we Yankee fans always heard his second pitch called.


#17    Mike Fast      (see all posts) 2009/10/05 (Mon) @ 12:39

Anthony/16, I didn’t mean why fans call it a two-seamer or why you guys called it that in this thread.  Why did whoever called it that first call it that?  Does Rivera call it that?  Verducci calls it a two-seamer, but he doesn’t mention his source.

Rivera works without such a complement. He throws his cutter 92% of the time; otherwise, he uses the pitch’s fraternal twin, a two-seam fastball, which he throws with the same velocity (usually 91 or 92 mph, down several ticks from his prime).

When he’s describing Rivera’s cutter grip, it’s so detailed (and accurate) that you can tell that he probably wrote that as Rivera was showing him.

Rivera tells them he holds the cutter just like a four-seam fastball. The ball is positioned with the seams forming a horseshoe shape with the closed end of the horseshoe facing to the right, or “outside” of the ball in the released position. The index and middle fingers are held perpendicular to the horizontal seams of the horseshoe, with the thumb underneath the ball.

“To me,” Rivera says, “it’s really a four-seam fastball with pressure on the middle finger. I don’t move my fingers. But at the end, it comes off [the middle] finger. I try to keep it on my finger as long as I can.”

“But he throws his four-seamer with two fingers together,” Borzello adds. “There is almost no space between his fingers. Nobody else I know throws a baseball that way.”

But we get no such explanation for his other pitch (people aren’t as interested in it, obviously).

He clearly doesn’t grip it like a two-seamer, and it doesn’t move like a two-seamer, or really like a four-seamer, for that matter.

I’m just curious about stuff like this.  And honestly, while I had looked plenty at Rivera’s PITCHf/x data before, I had never spent the time to look into his grips.  Now that I have, I am curious about why he grips the baseball the way he does and fascinated by the fact that so much of the uniqueness of his pitches can be explained by how he grips them.

What pitchers call their pitches is also an interesting topic for me because it can reveal what they think about their strategy/usage of the pitch in comparison to their other pitches.

On a slight tangent, Verducci mentions the following about Rivera’s fingers in his article:

Rivera’s ability to repeat his delivery helps explain his extraordinary command. His physiological advantages help explain the velocity and movement. Rivera has such a supple wrist and such long fingers that he can bend them back nearly to his wrist. The long fingers impart tremendous spin rates on the baseball, and his loose wrist snaps downward like a whip upon release. That snap, coupled with full forward extension of the arm, yields what hitters call “late life.”

Maybe I have long fingers, too, because I can pretty much duplicate Rivera’s grip on the ball.  Anybody else wanna try it and report back?
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0egS2XH0cH5fC/610x.jpg


#18          (see all posts) 2009/10/05 (Mon) @ 18:14

Rivera’s fastball really doesn’t fit the mold of either a 4seamer or a 2seamer.  Or maybe it fits the mold of a both a bad 4seamer and a bad 2seamer.  Mike is entirely right that it doesn’t have the lateral movement of your standard 2-seamer.  But it also has between 2 and 7 inches of vertical movement.  For a fastball, that’s downward movement. Compared to the cutter, that fastball has an inch or two of sink.


#19    Johnny Twisto      (see all posts) 2009/10/05 (Mon) @ 23:25

Mike, you obviously have a much better understanding of typical grips and movement of pitches than I do.  I do feel like I know Mariano in particular pretty well.  From watching it on TV, his pitch that I have considered a sinker definitely moves a lot more than what I would consider a 4-seam fastball.  My impression of a 4-seam fastball is one that is supposed to go straight (more or less; obviously if it moves a bit it is more effective, but I think it is generally intended to go faster and be aimed more precisely). 

I first remember articles about the development of Rivera’s sinker about 7-8 years ago.  One may be able to find them online.  I assume reporters got the information about him developing a sinker either directly from Rivera, or perhaps from Stottlemyre, and I assume one of them told the reporter he was working on a “sinker.” Seems possible they called it a sinker because it sinks, even if he doesn’t grip it with a traditional two-seam grip.  He used it rather sporadically until about 4-5 years ago, when it seemed he finally gained the confidence to use it more regularly. 

I’m not yet that familiar with the PitchFX stuff and the graphs you posted and I need to spend some time studying them.


#20    Johnny Twisto      (see all posts) 2009/10/05 (Mon) @ 23:32

“‘Exactly,’ Rivera replied when asked if it was a sinker he introduced in that final at-bat with Martinez.” (Oct 2000—earlier than I thought) http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores100/100291/100291301.htm

A Google news search shows quotes from articles which appear to be discussing Rivera throwing a sinker, but many of them require a fee to read in their entirety.
http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q="mariano+rivera"+sinker&scoring=a&hl=en&ned=us&sa=N&sugg=d&as_ldate=2000&as_hdate=2001&lnav=hist5


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