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Thursday, February 15, 2007

Outfield Arms

By Tangotiger, 11:03 AM

John did an excellent essay in the THT Annual 2007 on Outfield Arms, where he looked at arms since 1957.  Great stuff.  He continues that work for the 2006 season.

How does it compare to the Fans’ Scouting Report?  Let’s see:


If I weight the Fans’ as 50% for arm strength, 30% for accuracy, and 20% for release (I don’t know what it should be, though a regression may help), but let’s go with it: the top 4 arms for the Fans are Ichiro, Hawpe, Cuddyer, Rios (all happened to be RF).

Among RF, Walsh identifies the leaders as Rios, Hawpe, Magglio, Cuddyer, Ichiro.  Except for Magglio, that’s what you call a bullseye.  Magglio was ranked by the Fans as below average.

For CF, his list is not as strong, and I suspect it’s because of the position itself.  After all, a CF is positioned far differently with a LH and RH at the plate, while a LF and RF aren’t moved over as much.  I’m not sure if John adjusts for batter hand, but we should have that.  In any case, the Fans have Lofton, Crisp, Pierre, Damon at the bottom of the arms list for CF, and Walsh agrees, more or less, with that assessment.

Podsednik has the worst LF arm according to both Fans and Walsh.

***

I also wonder if there are park factors especially when I see the ranking of Mike Cameron.

***

As he noted at the end, there is still some uncaptured arm work, notably with Soriano, some of which is gunning down guys trying to stretch singles into doubles.

I would also say that we should come up with translations between LF, CF, RF.  Pretty easy to do, by simply looking at guys who played in multiple positions (though I would definitely use multiple years).  This way, we can have everyone on the same scale.

#1    Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk      (see all posts) 2007/02/15 (Thu) @ 22:30

In the Primer thread, John says that he doesn’t do park adjustments (yet).  I think you’d want such an adjustment, ideally, though I don’t know how much a difference it would make for non-extreme parks.  Does MGL’s arm rating have a park adjustment?


#2    John Walsh      (see all posts) 2007/02/19 (Mon) @ 05:46

That’s right: there is no park adjustment, although I realize that I need to investigate that (I, too, was surprised by Cameron’s low ranking.)

Does anybody have any input on Cameron’s positioning?  I know he plays in a big park, but my impression (very possibly incorrect) was that Cameron plays fairly shallow.  Am I wrong about that?

I got an email from a reader who made another good point about parks: artificial turf.  Rios and Cuddyer, the top-ranked RF in Hold+, both play their home games on turf.  It’s natural to postulate that runners might be less aggressive when the ball gets to the OF quicker due to the turf.


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/01/07 (Mon) @ 12:26

John comes back with this year’s arms:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/best-outfield-arms-of-2007/


#4    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/01/18 (Fri) @ 11:24

John provides more data:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/blog_article/more-outfield-arms-results/

Here’s a snippet:

Best and Worst Overall, 2004-2007
---------------------------------
RF Francoeur 23.7
Rios 21.5
Cuddyer 17.9

Those three guys happen to be #3, #5, and #4 according to the Fans Scouting Report.  I’ve got them averaging 5 runs a piece a year (or 20 runs over 4 years).  Huge bingo here.

The top 2 are Delmon Young (might have questionable Tampa data) and Shane Victorino.

Dye -8.3
Giles,B -13.5
Green,S -19.7

Fans have Green as one of the worst, but the other two are around average.

CF Edmonds 16.3
Jones,A 11.7
Payton 11.5

I’ve got Edmonds and Jones at +3 runs per year (bingo) but Payton as below average.

Williams,B -10.2
Damon -15.4
Pierre -19.1

Bernie didn’t play in 07, but he always ranked near the bottom.  The bottom 2 on 07 are Pierre and Damon averaging 4.5 runs below average each.  Bingo again.

LF Soriano 20.5
Cabrera,M 10.4
Ibanez 9.1

I’ve got Cabrera and Soriano as #3, #4 arm, behind Chavez and Jenkins.  Bingo there, but I don’t think anyone anticipated Soriano’s big showing.

Ibanez’s arm is hated by Mariners fans. 

White, R -11.4
Bay -13.3
Gonzalez,L -14.9

Bay is third-worst in the Fans, Gonzalez 6th worst (all very close to the #2 guy, but behind the worst that is Podsednik).  Rondell didn’t play, but he always had one of the worst arm ratings around.

I’ve got to say that the Fans have done a superb job in evaluating Arms here.

We are lucky that Arm ratings are:
1. one of the easiest for Fans to evaluate
2. one of the easiest for play-by-play metrics to evaluate

That we have a strong agreement here shows that both sides know what they are talking about.


#5    John Walsh      (see all posts) 2008/01/23 (Wed) @ 06:08

I’ve been looking at the agreement between my OF arms analysis and the Fans Scouting Report. 

One thing I noticed is that there is quite a bit of correlation among the various defensive categories. Obviously, some will be really be correlated, but it looks to me like there is some fan bias creeping in.

E.g., why should arm strength have a high (positive) correlation with arm accuracy? Unless the scout is giving high scores in all arm categories based on his general impression of a player having a good arm.

The high correlation among strength, accuracy and release make it impossible to use the categories separately to determine which aspect counts most towards having a good arm.

In any case, if you click on my name, you’ll see the pair-wise correlation plots of the 7 scouting categories for outfielders only.


#6    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/01/23 (Wed) @ 07:54

I think there should be some correlation.  I have no doubt that there is some fan bias.  For example, if a guy has a “5” for an arm strength (on a 1-5 scale), you would expect the arm accuracy to be 3-5, not 1-5.  It’s kinda hard to be in MLB with a fantastic arm, and just leave it to the gods on arm accuracy.  It stands to reason that someone with great arm strength will work on his arm accuracy to some extent such that he’s at least average in that regard.  If he has horrible accuracy, they will simply tell him not to throw the ball so hard (arm strength 4), and that will improve his accuracy (2 or 3).


#7    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/01/23 (Wed) @ 07:59

Those are really cool charts. 

I just focused on arm strength and speed, likely the two easiest things for a fan to evaluate.  It seems to support my general opinion that if you are good in one thing, you are good in something else (or fan bias to that regard).

I see that the 3 arm categories are tightly coupled, as are speed/first step and hands/instincts.


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