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Wednesday, November 19, 2008

Offense by position groups by decade

By Tangotiger, 05:52 PM

Breaking all players based on their primary position class, here are the run values per 700 PA of each group, by decade:


First the Catchers:
decade LWTS700
1870 -7
1880 -21
1890 -22
1900 -26
1910 -22
1920 -18
1930 -15
1940 -18
1950 -13
1960 -15
1970 -10
1980 -14
1990 -16
2000 -19

The 1970s was the period for the best hitting catchers, and even then, they were still overall, pretty poor hitters.  Since 1980, they are -16.3 runs.

Next, the infielders (2B, SS, 3B, as a group):
decade LWTS700
1870 0
1880 -6
1890 -9
1900 -7
1910 -8
1920 -17
1930 -15
1940 -12
1950 -11
1960 -13
1970 -15
1980 -10
1990 -10
2000 -9

Alot of jumping around.  Fairly stable for the last 30 years.  Since 1980, they are -9.6.

The outfielders:
decade LWTS700
1870 2
1880 7
1890 16
1900 14
1910 14
1920 18
1930 11
1940 13
1950 11
1960 12
1970 11
1980 7
1990 6
2000 6

The 1890s through 1920s represents the big change.  And since the 1980s, quite a bit less offense.  Since 1980, OF are +6.5.

Lastly, the 1B/DH:
decade LWTS700
1870 1
1880 24
1890 7
1900 6
1910 5
1920 16
1930 26
1940 12
1950 11
1960 15
1970 15
1980 14
1990 21
2000 20

Obviously, pre-1920, it was a different game.  The offense was concentrated in the OF, not 1B.  Presumably, the better fielders were at 1B, not OF.  There was a shift in the 1920s, so that the two groups were balanced.  It has been noticeably larger gap these last two decades.  Since 1980, they are +18.4 runs.

Here’s the recap, since 1980:
C -16.3
IF -9.6
OF 6.5
1B 18.4

Compare this to the fielding positional adjustments I use:
C +12.5
IF +4.2
OF -4.2
1B -14.2 (includes DH)

To the extent that the average player in each pool should be paid the same, then my numbers are simply not good enough. And one would think they should be paid the same, because after 30 years, the equilibrium point in terms of moving players among the positions should have been settled.  I mean, there’s only so many spots for 1B, and since the hitting of 1B is so overwhelming, one would hope that a few of them would be playing 2B, 3B, or in the corner OF.  It is not happening.  Why is that? 

***

Let’s look at the SS/2B/3B dynamic, by decade, RELATIVE TO EACH OTHER:
decade 2B SS 3B
1870 1 -1 1
1880 -1 -1 2
1890 -2 -1 3
1900 4 -3 -1
1910 6 -9 3
1920 11 -11 0
1930 0 -5 5
1940 -3 -6 9
1950 -5 -9 14
1960 -6 -8 14
1970 -2 -16 18
1980 -1 -13 14
1990 1 -11 10
2000 -1 -7 8

Through the 1890s, very little separated the three positions.  In essence, they were all equals.  From 1900s through the 1920s, the offense was concentrated at 2B.  Then, since the 1930s, the offense went toward 3B.

From the 1940s through the 1960s, very little separated the SS and 2B.  The turf years (and I suppose expansion into outside North America) changed that substantially, with an enormous shift away from offense at SS.

The 2B seems to have found a happy medium between SS and 3B in offense.  However, in defense, as we know, the 3B is very very close to the 2B.  So, again, we don’t have the equilibrium that we’d expect.  Just on this one along, we see a 9-run disequilibrium.  It seems that MLB is not very efficient is spreading talent, even among positions that has alot of movement within it.  Since 1980, the gap is 10 runs between SS and 2B, and 10 runs the other way between 3B and 2B.

I’ve been using a FIVE run gap between SS and 3B, not the TWENTY run gap we see here.

Where I said this:
Here’s the recap, since 1980:
C -16.3
IF -9.6
OF 6.5
1B 18.4

If we take this line:
IF -9.6

It would expand into:
SS -19.6
2B -9.6
3B +0.4

***

Let’s look at the OF dynamic:

decade LF CF RF
1870 3 5 -8
1880 1 3 -4
1890 4 -1 -3
1900 4 -2 -2
1910 -3 2 1
1920 2 -5 3
1930 1 -9 7
1940 4 -6 2
1950 6 -3 -4
1960 1 -4 3
1970 4 -7 2
1980 3 -6 3
1990 1 -6 6
2000 5 -10 6

Through the 1900s, the lack of offense was found in RF.  The lack of offense in CF really started in the 1920s.  There was a period in the 1950s where the lack of offense was in RF.

Since the 1980s, the split is -8 in CF, and +4 in the corner OF.  That’s a 12-run gap, which is very consistent with my findings using the fielding numbers only.

The split between LF and RF shows that there’s more offense in RF since the 1980s (+5 in RF, +3 in LF).  But, as we’ve seen, that kind of disequilibrium can be expected.

Once again, here’s the recap, since 1980:
C -16.3
IF -9.6
OF 6.5
1B 18.4

If we take this line:
OF 6.5

We can create:
CF -1.5
RF 10.5
LF 10.5

Merging everything, since 1980s:
SS -19.6
C -16.3
2B -9.6
CF -1.5
3B +0.4
RF 10.5
LF 10.5
1B 18.4

That’s it for now…

#1    David Cameron      (see all posts) 2008/11/19 (Wed) @ 18:52

Clearly, in the 70s and 80s, there was a dearth of good hitting shortstops.  That continued into the early part of the 90s, but clearly changed in the middle of 90s, where Rodriguez/Garciparra/Jeter/Tejada came along, and hasn’t really been back to the 70s/80s level since. 

I don’t know that we can justify such a strong current position adjustment based on the fact that shortstops couldn’t hit 20 years ago.


#2          (see all posts) 2008/11/19 (Wed) @ 19:13

Data from Bpro, batting by position by year, using actual position of player for each PA, summed with even weights 1998-2007.

BRAA = (wOBA-.332)/1.15*700

pos wOBA BRAA(700)
c .311 -12.9
ss .314 -11.3
2b .323 -5.5
cf .330 -1.1
3b .333 +0.6
dh .343 +6.6
lf .347 +8.7
rf .348 +9.8
1b .357 +14.7


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/11/20 (Thu) @ 10:42

If I limit it to 1993-present (that’s when the change in the run environment started), I get this:
-17.8 C
-9.6 IF
+6.1 OF
+21.6 1B

The IF is broken down, relative to each other, as:
-9 SS
-0 2B
+9 3B

The OF is similarly broken down as:
-9.6 CF
+4.8 corner OF

(The corner OF has more offense in RF over LF by 3 runs.)

***

The gap between CF and the corner OF is 14.5 runs, which is far more than what we’ve been using.  I’ve been using 10 runs, and others have been using even less.

The gap between 2B and 3B is 9 runs, and between SS and 3B is 18 runs.  Clearly, we have an issue here.  Why are Scott Rolen, Adrien Beltre, Pedro Feliz, and a host of other good fielding 3B not playing SS?  If Rolen and Feliz were on the same team, is there any doubt that one of them would play SS?  And would be pretty good in the process?

If Youkilis was on most other teams, wouldn’t he still be playing 3B?  What’s Teixeira doing at 1B?

Either there is an enormous amount of inefficiency, or, the guys who are really good hitters simply stay in the position they want and learn, and everybody else moves around them. 

***

Anyway, if you insist on using the offensive runs as a way to handle the positional adjustments, here they are, for 1993-present:
LWTS700 PosPrim
-18 SS
-18 C
-10 2B
-4 CF
-1 3B
9 LF
12 RF
19 DH
22 1B

You will see some ridiculous stuff like the DH/1B issue.  As well as RF/LF. In both cases, better hitters and better fielders are in the same position, but using the offensive levels to adjust each position will make the average at each of those positions (off+def) equals.  This is obviously wrong.

The 2B/3B gap in no way can support a fielding gap of 9 runs to match the hitting gap.

And remember, this uses SIXTEEN years of performance, and we have a certain degree of uneasiness here.  To use ONE year offensive runs to handle the position adjustment is simply wrong (with all due apologies to Chris Dial).


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