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Thursday, May 19, 2011

Ode to print encyclopedias

By Tangotiger, 09:32 AM

I agree with Patriot that the Neft/Cohen layout was by far the best layout of the encyclopedias.  I have never liked the phone book layout (listing everyone from A to Z in that order).  Neft Cohen instead listed the stats by year-team.  In addition, they did show the career line for each player in the A to Z format… but they did it by “era”, which was another brilliant way to show it.

As for electronic and print, and the value of one over the other: it’s clear that print has some value.  Sometimes you know exactly what you want and exactly where to find it.  I can open up a book, and go right to that page, just on memory.  That’s one thing that printed books have over the other forms, the tangible memory.  That’s probably why I can remember Bill James’ Baseball Abstract writings from 25 years ago, but not his electronic writings from 25 days ago.  As an example, I know exactly on which side of the page he talked about Wade Boggs and some Redsox teammate, and which one of them hit more singles.  It’s a photographic snapshot in my mind.  Maybe I’m weird like that, that I’m an oddball, and most people don’t have their memories work in that manner.

***

As for inferring demand based on posted prices on Amazon, I wouldn’t count on that to mean it’s mostly demand.  For example, the first edition of The Book is selling for over 100$.  There’s no reason for that, especially since the current edition is a reprint edition.  I’m sure it’s some automated pricing scheme that is not that good.


#1          (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 15:22

I agree as well.  I had an old encyclopedia that sounds exactly like the Neft/Cohen layout.  A few pages for each year with stats for each player separated into the team they played the most for.  A description of the major events of the year to start it off, and the full stats by era after all the years of the era.  Great layout.  It let me look at all the stats for a single year at one time.  Unfortunately, the stats they included were limited but that’s where my Total Baseball came in handy.


#2    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 15:32

IIRC the history of encyclopedias that Pete Palmer explained to me, there was MacMillan, there was Neft/Cohen, and there was Pete.  Everyone else relied on these three sources.  I’ll have to find his email.


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 15:53

Ok, found the email.  Pete said “Neft worked for ICI who compiled the data for Macmillan”.  The third source was Neil Munro and STATS, according to Pete.  So, ICI/MacMillan/Neft is one, Pete is another, and Munro/STATS is the other.

***

Pete also said this about quality:

And it wasn’t until around 2000 when MLBAM started comparing box scores and checking differences on video tape that the stats really became accurate.  So even with all my work, the stats are still more or less approximations. [ redacted ] found 6 errors in Gehrig’s 1931 record rbi figure, but they all canceled out, so the original figure was correct.  This is discouraging and we will have to find a solution at some point.

This is why I don’t get too worked up about the accuracy of stats.


#4    Patriot      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 19:00

Good point on the prices.  I didn’t even think of an automated system.

Ken, the book you describe has to be Neft/Cohen--the Sports Encyclopedia: Baseball.  If the book listed OBA and pitcher runs allowed and home runs it would have been darn near perfect (for me at least).


#5    Zac      (see all posts) 2011/05/19 (Thu) @ 19:47

Tango, you’re absolutely right about automated pricing schemes. Click my name for an article I saw on twitter a couple weeks ago about how two used book sellers both using automated pricing led to a book being listed for $23,698,655.93 for a while.


#6    Rufus      (see all posts) 2011/05/22 (Sun) @ 16:08

"That’s probably why I can remember Bill James’ Baseball Abstract writings from 25 years ago, but not his electronic writings from 25 days ago.” Great line. So true.


#7          (see all posts) 2011/05/22 (Sun) @ 16:23

And it wasn’t until around 2000 when MLBAM started comparing box scores and checking differences on video tape that the stats really became accurate.

This is a tangent, but I found that an interesting statement, one I agree with.  MLBAM has really done a bang-up job with stats, and their audits and procedures seem to improve every year.  I’ve been very willing to point out at times when they’ve made a mistake or I disagree with their philosophy about something, so I want to take this opportunity to point out how much MLBAM has contributed to the stats community.  All the MLBAM-provided and cross-checked stats are an amazing resource.


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