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Wednesday, September 22, 2010

Not all TV commentators believe in clutch hitting

By , 09:27 PM

While watching the (Fox Sports Houston) Astros broadcast tonight, either Jim Dehsaies or Dave Raymond remarked that there was no such thing as clutch hitters - that the hitters who are perceived as clutch are simply good hitters. He also said that the “evidence” was that some years players have good clutch stats and other years they don’t (IOW, there is not a good y-t-y correlation).  He didn’t articulate quite that way (about “one year to the next"), but that is what he apparently meant.

Finally, he mentioned that he once asked Merv Rettenmund (famous hitting coach) about clutch hitting, and that Merv looked at him askance and said, “There is no such thing.”

I’ve been watching baseball a lot for many, many years, and I don’t think I’ve ever heard a TV announcer speak with such heresy.  Nice to see/hear…


SabermetricsClutchMedia
#1    Harry Pavlidis      (see all posts) 2010/09/22 (Wed) @ 21:49

You just blew my mind. Recall which inning? So I can quickly find it on MLB.TV…


#2    MGL      (see all posts) 2010/09/22 (Wed) @ 23:19

Wow, I don’t remember the inning.  Probably 7 or 8…


#3    MGL      (see all posts) 2010/09/22 (Wed) @ 23:28

According to someone on BBTF, that was Deshaies.  That person also said that Raymond “is a moron...”


#4    Bowie      (see all posts) 2010/09/22 (Wed) @ 23:43

Deshaies is awesome.  Been listening to Jim for years.  He can also be very funny and self-deprecating-- a very dry kind of funny and his announcing partners often miss the joke.


#5    Ryan JL      (see all posts) 2010/09/23 (Thu) @ 00:15

According to someone on BBTF, that was Deshaies.  That person also said that Raymond “is a moron...”

It was Lisa Gray, FWIW (someone who would know.)


#6    BenJ      (see all posts) 2010/09/23 (Thu) @ 09:02

I can’t say I’ve listened closely to the Astros’ broadcasts, but Raymond started attending the SABR chapter meetings at some point when I lived in Houston.  Regardless of what he might say on the air, he’s a smart guy (Stanford grad, I think).


#7          (see all posts) 2010/09/23 (Thu) @ 23:33

Thanks for reporting this. Glad to hear some announcers are willing to express a different opinion.


#8    minesweeper      (see all posts) 2010/09/23 (Thu) @ 23:49

Someone should update Deshaies’s Wikipedia page.  A new header’s in order.


#9    statsall      (see all posts) 2010/09/24 (Fri) @ 00:19

JD is pretty sharp and usually brings a refreshing perspective to the broadcast.  As far as Raymond goes, I actually think he’s of similar quality. The radio broadcast is generally a mess, but he brings some clarity and humor.  He talks about the game and describes it.  Milo only talks about his lunches.  The other guy is okay, but usually blabbing about other games and teams.


#10    Ted      (see all posts) 2010/09/24 (Fri) @ 12:20

Why is it nice for someone to express such a pathetic opinion?  It is an undeniable fact that some athletes perform their best when the stakes are the highest. I’m not saying the difference is enormous, but it is certainly there for some clutch players. In tennis, you simply have to look at players like Roger Federer and Pete Sampras, and compare their tournament win % or their win percentage in tournament finals to their performance in grand slams, which is noticeably higher.  I’m sure there are plenty of comparisons in other sports as well.  Sometimes common wisdom is simple common sense.  Another reason it is so stupid is that it is a semantical argument.  If someone gets a hit to win a game, it is by definition clutch.  If a player has a certain season where their ba with risp is higher than all of their other seasons, you might call it a statistical anomaly, but for whatever reason, for that season, that player was indeed a clutch hitter, like it or not. Stat freaks don’t like the idea of being clutch because it can’t be measured mathematically.


#11    Bobby A      (see all posts) 2010/09/24 (Fri) @ 12:42

I’m good friends with a few Astros fans, and it’s not bad watching their games because Deshaies is great.  Big Ups Jim Deshaies.


#12    Bobby A      (see all posts) 2010/09/24 (Fri) @ 12:51

@ #10 Ted

Why are you even trolling on this site if you think the arguments are stupid?

This may be off topic from the usual retort to your “stupid-argument” attack.  Do you realize how difficult it is to hit a round ball with a round bat?  It’s not like playing someone you are similar to in tennis.  We are talking incredibly small fractions of time and space to be able to connect with a Major League pitch.  Tennis isn’t easy, of course.  However, it levels the playing field since both players are using rackets, instead of having a highly trained professional pitcher standing on elevated ground trying to make the batter miss.  Comparisons to other sports also level playing fields because they are team sports.  There is fairness.  In hitting, we’re talking about one aspect of a sport that is heavily favored towards one side, in this case the pitcher.


#13    bowie      (see all posts) 2010/09/24 (Fri) @ 12:53

#10—if it can’t be measured mathematically, then why did you try to prove Federer and Sampras’s clutch abilities using math?


#14    bowie      (see all posts) 2010/09/24 (Fri) @ 13:01

#10—Understand that the question is not about clutch performances, but clutch abilities.

Deshaies was making the point that what most people think of as clutch hitting skill is just evidence of good hitting skills regardless of game situation. There is very little evidence that any players have a special ability to raise their batting performance in certain situations at will.

If you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten us.


#15    flex0us      (see all posts) 2010/09/24 (Fri) @ 13:05

And if you look to the cage at the right gentlemen you will see an almost extinct creature called Homus Clutchung Jerectus, or better known by its morganistic name “TED”. Please gentlemen dont feed the TED, remember the disclaimer at the front door...ok moving on…


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