THE BOOK cover
The Unwritten Book is Finally Written!
An in-depth analysis of: The sacrifice bunt, batter/pitcher matchups, the intentional base on balls, optimizing a batting lineup, hot and cold streaks, clutch performance, platooning strategies, and much more.
Read Excerpts & Customer Reviews
If you are a media member and would like a review copy of The Book, please contact Kevin Cuddihy of Potomac Books.

Buy The Book from Amazon

MOST RECENT ARTICLES
MAIL : You ask | We say

Advanced


THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

<< Back to main

Thursday, July 17, 2008

Negro Leagues

By Tangotiger, 10:10 AM

I’m watching Bob Costas NOW.  I think it’s all uppercase, though I don’t know why.  Is it an acronym?  Here’s his site.  Anyway, there were a couple of interesting things on that show:


I must say that Bob, as much as I don’t really care for his snooty attitude, asked very good questions.  Really good.  He asked Arte Moreno, point-blank, and off the bat, about Barry Bonds.  Arte disappointed me.  He hemmed and hawed, and then Bob tried to ask him again.  And Moreno gave him such a b.s. answer about how they have a plan about promoting from within (Vlad!… Torii!… Matthews!).  It was a horrible display by Moreno.  And Bob.... dropped the ball.  Bob had a plan to tackle certain issues, and he had a plan for allotted time, and he had a plan to also get to Andy Van Slyke and Dave Winfield on that panel, and nothing was going to stop him.  Bob was far too gentle on Arte.  Later on, he followed up about Matthews being implicated with PED, and Arte is now defending him, and not very well.  Arte I thought came off terribly, just so very bad.  The topic du jour was State of Baseball .... couldn’t he have been better prepared?  At least he didn’t give us Bull Durham quotes.  I’ll give Arte an F for his performance.  Bob gets an A for the topics he brought up, and a D for followup questions.

Anyway, they talk about the lack of Blacks.  Selig, Granderson, Van Slyke agree (*) that there’s a generational gap, that MLB lost an entire generation of Black fans.  Granderson said that MLB went from 28% Black ballplayers to 8% in a span of 30 years.  Van Slyke offered that Mays and Aaron (guests on the upcoming segment) were a product of the Negro Leagues, and therefore, there was a feeding system.  (And I suppose kids who followed them were likely inspired.) After that though, it stopped.  Seems to make sense.  Negro Leagues could be like the European and Russian Leagues in hockey.  If you shut them down, will the NHL still have as many Europeans and Russians in their league?

(*) I think they agreed.  It was 6 in the morning, and I just woke up.  And I’m writing this 4 hours later.

I’m thinking sprawl might have something to do with it as well.  When I was a kid, I’d go to the park, and there’d be dozens of kids at a couple of the diamonds, and we’d play.  No organization, no nothing.  Show up with your glove, and you’re in a game.  Now, it’s all about organization, and getting mom or dad to drive you.  But, basketball in the urban areas, you show up, and you play.  Baseball parks in the urban areas don’t really exist any more do they?  Or not as much.

Why not organize a new Negro League?  Right now, we have NCAA, which could be the Whites-Mostly League as far as Blacks are concerned.  There’s no reason to tie in a league to your attending a college.  It doesn’t make any sense really.  In hockey, they have Major Junior leagues that are not linked to the player’s high school or college.  You don’t have to be rich or smart to play in those leagues.

Wouldn’t a Negro League be awesome?

Bob gave another hard-hitting question to Arte about ticket prices, and about how the public subsidizes two-thirds of the price of the stadium, so shouldn’t the public get access to affordable tickets.  Arte swung at strike 3. Bob’s point is that the game is not being passed down from generation to generation.

#1    Eric Seidman      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 11:18

Granted I’m a Phillies fan and love me some Jimmy Rollins but what he said really made a ton of sense, whether it’s been said before or not.  And I was actually surprised to hear an athlete make a mention of the parenting issues.

In case anyone missed it, Rollins attributed the decline in blacks to the fact that most black families are growing up without a father, which is where kids learn about baseball.  Without someone to introduce baseball to them, a team game, they can play basketball or practice football jukes on their own with no outside help.  On top of that, the rise in equipment cost and need hinders their ability to truly get the best gear or even any gear.

I also thoroughly enjoyed everything that came out of Curtis Granderson’s mouth.  Can anyone say future commentator?


#2    Josh Wexler      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 11:58

"Wouldn’t a Negro League be awesome?”

I’m not sure if this was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but, um… no. Besides its questionable legality (Title II of the 1964 Civil Rights Act outlaws public accommodations based on race), I cannot fathom the appeal of reprising single race leagues (which aren’t exactly a happily nostalgiac part of this country’s history).

Son[to dad]: Look, Pa- The grass is so green on this field. And the visiting team sure looks ready to play.

Dad: Yes, Johnny- and those boys are all dark as night! Isn’t that great?

Why should this topic be a matter of concern to us? Who cares if certain races or ethnicities are gung ho about particular sports? Does it affect your enjoyment of the game to see a certain number of players with blue eyes, or brown skin, or red hair?

Maybe I’d identify with the sport more if teams stocked their bullpens with other atheist jews- in a weird, shallow kind of way. But I fail to see why it’s matter of concern to other baseball fans.


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 12:38

Not tongue in cheek at all.

I support Black-only leagues for the same reason I support Women-only leagues: other than the very highest level of league (in which there should be no discrimination at all), every league below that level exists to foster some level of competition to reach out to certain groups of people.

If there is a bias against women in pro baseball, then a women’s only league will pop up to counter that bias.  Once that happens, women now have an avenue toward MLB.  (I suppose the best example would be in hockey, as the first female athlete in a pro regular season game would likely be an NHL goalie, where size and strength is the least of the required attributes.)

Same applies here: if there is a bias of some sort against Black ballplayers, for whatever reason, then a Black-only league could and should exist.  They then have an avenue toward MLB.

There is a bias against non-College players… I imagine there are semi-pro leagues or amateur leagues that caters to those guys (i.e., excludes College and HS players).

In all cases, the existence of the league seeks out those biased against to give them a chance.

As for the Civil Rights act, I’m not a lawyer, or American, but as far as I have understood it, MLB and the other leagues are private organizations, and therefore are not subject to public sector laws regarding employment.  If the WNBA wishes to discriminate based on gender, they can.  And if Augusta National discriminates based on race, as a private club, they can.

I’m sure a lawyer will come along and set me straight.


#4    Xeifrank      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 12:47

I don’t claim to have any answers, but would like to atleast make a few observations/points about the dramatic drop in blacks in MLB.  First off, to put this in better context it would be nice to know the breakdown of each player by race from every decade, beginning when blacks were first allowed to play MLB.  My guess is that much of the drop in blacks in MLB has been picked up by the influx of Latin and Asian players, with probably only a slight increase for white players if any.  The argument about poverty being a big contributor, well that’s hard to believe.  Other poor countries like Cuba, Dominican and to a lesser extent Venezuela and Puerto Rico don’t seem to have a problem putting out quite a few ball players per capita.  My guess is that the number one contributing factor would be lack of interest.  Let’s face it, basketball and football (especially basketball) or marketed more towards the black community than baseball is.  I’m sure poverty has some effect, but not to the extreme that golf and tennis would have.
vr, Xeifrank


#5          (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 13:00

"if there is a bias of some sort against Black ballplayers, for whatever reason, then a Black-only league could and should exist.  They then have an avenue toward MLB.”

Do you have reason to believe that there is bias against blacks in MLB? I doubt that is so, but even if it were I don’t see how a blacks only league would cause those MLB decision makers to alter their bias.

Independent leagues, semi-pro leagues, and amateur leagues abound where people of any race can participate. These leagues have not served as an avenue to MLB.


#6    jdwexler@yahoo.com      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 13:14

Two thing s really irk me about this conversation (the general debate, I mean- not the comments on this blog):

1)The fetishistic focus on race. If there is evidence of racial bias in MLB, then I think that’s legitimate fodder for people to get upset and argue about. But this whole debate is largely about the simple fact that blacks don’t play baseball as much as they used too. This is not a crisis- for blacks, or MLB, or baseball fans generally. It is simply individuals making decision for themselves about what they want to pursue in life. It’s condescending to suggest to blacks that they are making a poor decision because baseball is so important to us. And it’s inane to suggest to baseball fans that they ought to be concerned about the racial composition of the league they follow (unless, again, this is the result of some nefarious racial discrimination).

2)I think this is part of a larger stream of thought in which followers of a sports (mostly the media) fret over the waning popularity of a sports league and insist that more people playing, watching, and attending games is necessarily a good thing. Well, from my perspective as a fan- it’s not a good thing! I say to all the non-core baseball and hockey fans: Go Away! You’re taking up my seat at Yankee and Ranger games. You’re driving up ticket prices. You’re making it more expensive to get the MLB and NHL package on my computer. You’re diluting the conversations about the game with your silly, shallow, uninformed comments that you stole from some idiot reporter. And, in return, the leagues and media are catering to your needs. Not mine- the hardcore baseball and hockey fan.

I say: Shrink the sport!


#7    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 13:22

A Black-only league would serve the same function as a women-only league, just as Jewish-only and Italian-only clubs exist: to give an environment that fosters participation.

The bias exists not at the MLB-maker level, and none of my comments should be construed as such.


#8    dq      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 23:12

In these times the possibility of an all black league is virtually impossible. Fair hiring in the US by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Even if it wasn’t, public pressure would be such that advertisers would not participate.

My concern with the decline in blacks is the reduction of the talent pool. If the % of blacks is down, how many major leaguers have been lost?


Page 1 of 1 pages


Name (required)
E-Mail (optional)
Website (optional)

<< Back to main


Latest...

COMMENTS

Jan 08 04:25
Sabermetric Moves of the 2009 Pre-Season

Jan 09 02:33
Cheers

Jan 08 23:45
The first Hardball Times Annual available for download!

Jan 08 21:16
Line Drives

Jan 08 20:23
(recent) Historical WAR on Fangraphs

Jan 08 16:07
Clint Eastwood is Archie Bunker

Jan 08 16:06
Hardball Times Annual 2008, starring…

Jan 08 15:58
Madoff’s Ponzi

Jan 08 03:41
Valuing relievers

Jan 07 17:41
The latest in park factors