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Tuesday, July 15, 2008

Muzzling players

By Tangotiger, 01:52 PM

While I offered one terrible and one legitimate choice when I asked about Depodesta last week, I will offer two terrible choice about Papelbon: is he delusional, or is he simply an idiot?  Even now, as he concedes to Mariano for the right to close the All-Star game at Yankee stadium, it was more a sign of respect to what Mariano has accomplished, rather than what Mariano is doing right now.  Papelbon has 51K and 7BB.  But Mariano is 50 and 4!  Papelbon has allowed 16 runs in 40 innings, and Mo is 5 in 42!  Are you kidding me?  Papelbon has also given up more HR (3 to 2) than Mo.  On BIP, Mo’s batting average is .232, while Papelbon is .313.  While Papelbon is ready to put Mariano out to pasture, Mariano is actually the grim reaper, ready to cut down any closer who thinks he’s already better than Mo.

Papelbon is either delusional in thinking that he’s already a clearly better pitcher than Mariano (he might be a bit better at this point, if only because we automatically expect a guy that is 11 years younger than the other to be physically better), or he is an idiot for speaking as if he wants to step aside to give grandpa Mo one last hurrah.

When I was a kid, I was a huge Redsox fan.  I suffered in 1986.  At some point soon after that, my two favorite athletes growing up, Tim Raines and Kelly Hrudey, were traded.  I also was in college.  It was time to move on and grow up from having a favorite team, when the players are so callously treated.  No need to excuse a big mouth just because he wears your team’s colors.

If we’re going to accept to ignore everything a GM or manager says about a player as being insincere, perhaps we need to also ignore everything a player says about a peer as being completely ignorant.


#1    dave      (see all posts) 2008/07/15 (Tue) @ 15:51

Not sure what you are reading, but I haven’t seen any kind of delusional thinking from Papelbon.

He was asked if he should close, and he spoke very well of Rivera, and said Rivera should be the closer.


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/07/15 (Tue) @ 16:03

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar08/news/story?id=3488087

“We’ve both earned that right; us, by winning the World Series and having the opportunity of having our manager there and our team being represented, and Mariano by what he’s done for this role, we’re in Yankee Stadium and blah, blah, blah,” Papelbon said. “It’s not that easy. Everybody thinks it’s a cut and dry answer, but it’s not.

“If I was managing the team, I would close,” Papelbon said. “I’m not managing the team, so it don’t matter.”
...
“I feel I owe a lot to this game and that’s one of the things I owe to this game, to let an elder statesman go ahead of me.”

Yesterday, he was ridiculous.  Today, he toned down quite a bit, but not as much.


#3          (see all posts) 2008/07/15 (Tue) @ 16:51

"No need to excuse a big mouth just because he wears your team’s colors.”

Agreed.  But that’s not any reason to not have a favorite team, is it? 

Although I have to admit that a lot of people DO think being a fan of their team means defending the players no matter how outrageous their acts.  Especially if by “team” you mean “political party or “religion”.


#4    TC      (see all posts) 2008/07/15 (Tue) @ 18:03

I don’t follow Papelbon’s footsteps closely, but it does seem to me this is not the first time Papelbon’s words have indicated a less than critical thinking mind behind them.  I think Francona even jokes that his closer’s a doofus.


#5    MGL      (see all posts) 2008/07/15 (Tue) @ 20:18

It seems as if Paps realized (or someone pointed it out to him, or whatever) he said some stupid things and rectified his mistake in a dignified fashion.

To me, contrition and making amends is much more a sign of maturity and intelligence (and whatever else you want to call it) than making a mistake in the first place.


#6    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/07/15 (Tue) @ 21:56

... if there’s true repentance.  Typically, it’s “damage control”, which is what I suspect is the case here.


#7    coops      (see all posts) 2008/07/16 (Wed) @ 13:34

As a Yankee fan, I wanted to point out that Rivera’s post season era is a very low 0.80, but then I saw Papelbon’s, which was an incredible 0.00!  That said, I think the NYY booing last night was excessive and unwarranted, given that it was the ASG.  Maybe it was loud as the time that Schilling said he wanted to shut up 50K+ yankee fans and the NYY knocked him out in the 2nd inning


#8    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/07/16 (Wed) @ 13:37

Based on the SOSH faithful, it seems that Papelbon’s comments are par for the course:
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=34003


#9    Richard      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 03:45

#2, is that the quote you’re taking issue with?  If it is, I don’t see what’s wrong with it.


#10    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 06:49

It is a very easy answer, and Papelbon thinks it’s not. 

“Let” an elder statesman go ahead of him? Yeesh… the “elder” statesman may still be ahead of him!  I read it like he thinks Mo is on his last legs, lucky to even be pitching.


#11    Richard      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 14:40

10, it sounded to me like he wanted to close, but wasn’t pressing for the gig because he recognized that Rivera ought to given the significance.  What was he supposed to say there?  “Yeah, I’d like to close, but he’s better”?


#12    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 15:50

"Mariano Rivera is the greatest reliever of all time, and he is still on top of his game.  This is Yankee Stadium, and I’d be honored if Terry were to give me the ball in the 8th so I could hand it off to Mo in the 9th.”

I remember the great attitude between Jeter and Nomar a few years ago at SS at the ASG.  That’s what I expect from a professional.  Even moreso here, since it was such a clearcut case.

Barry Bonds once told his ASG manager after playing for 7 innings: we’ve got a stud on the bench who hasn’t played… put him in.  He was referring to Vlad, and it might have been Vlad’s first game.  (You Retrosheeters can try to validate my memory if you like.)


#13    Richard      (see all posts) 2008/07/17 (Thu) @ 15:55

That’s certainly better than what he said, but I still don’t see why what he said was terrible.


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