THE BOOK cover
The Unwritten Book is Finally Written!
An in-depth analysis of: The sacrifice bunt, batter/pitcher matchups, the intentional base on balls, optimizing a batting lineup, hot and cold streaks, clutch performance, platooning strategies, and much more.
Read Excerpts & Customer Reviews

Buy The Book from Amazon


SABR101 required reading if you enter this site. Check out the Sabermetric Wiki. And interesting baseball books.
MOST RECENT ARTICLES
MAIL : You ask | We say

Advanced


THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

<< Back to main

Sunday, November 27, 2011

Murray Chass v Bobby Valentine

By Tangotiger, 11:48 AM

Murray channels his inner-FJM to go after Bobby V.  Fun, if kind of pointless.  Welcome to the blogging world Murray… you fit right in.

I was amused by this:

Earlier in the season, McRae said, “He’s not a typical manager. He does weird and goofy things. . . . I’m not saying he’s right or wrong. He’s a different type manager and it’s our job to adjust to what he’s doing.”

Felipe Alou was once asked who he hated managing against, and he said Bobby V.  He said it’s not because he was the best or the worst, but because he was so unconventional, that it was hard to manage against him.  So, I found it amusing to read Brian McRae say practically the same thing that Alou said.


#1    Wexler      (see all posts) 2011/11/27 (Sun) @ 22:10

FJM: group of very funny comedy writers fisking articles in a self-consciously over-the-top manner in order to 1)highlight the folly of those who consistently & outwardly spurn reason & evidence and 2)create hilarity.

Murray Chass: a hack member of the aforementioned anti-reason class with absolutely no sense of humor who pens one-sided hatchet jobs to advance his agenda of personal animus.

It’s a blog and Chass has long been put out to pasture by NYT, so I guess one can just read this hatchet job as another interweb screed. But I find something disturbing about a former journalist being given attention for such blatant axe grinding. Especially since his previous hit and run on Stan Musial (calling him a racist) proved to be total bullshit. Beyond the fact that he’s obviously distorting the full character of a man, there’s a decent chance that some of his stories here simply aren’t true.

Tango, I remember you trying to engage Chass with an open letter. Did he ever take you up on it and show a genuine open-mindedness and receptiveness to evidence that contradicts his intuitions?

Here’s the FJM archive on Murray:
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/search/label/murray%20chass


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/11/28 (Mon) @ 08:25

I have corresponded a few times with Chass, but he has never asked me about sabermetrics.


#3          (see all posts) 2011/11/28 (Mon) @ 10:28

I agree with Chass more than I don’t in regards to Bobby V.

The guy seems fake as hell. Everyone is the best player. Everyone gets praise showered upon them, except the managers of course. They’re always wrong, especially when BV is looking for a job.

I always got the feeling that BV, from the booth, was kissing all of the players’ butts and pointing out how wrong the managers were, as if every broadcast were an audtition/interview for a managerial job.

“For Valentine, who espoused the statistical principles of Bill James and sabermetrics years before they became fashionable, it was a chance to flex his strategic muscles in front of a bright staff.”

He’s sabermetric-based? BV? The guy that says some of the dumbest stuff one will ever hear in a broadcast? I’d like to here more about his sabermetric foundation. His talk if too much bunt em over, get em over, etc.

I don’t like BV, which is rare, because I at least tolerate Joe Morgan for all of the outstanding things he did on the field. My impression is that BV is fake. All the smiling, all the praise on everybody for everything (except the managers), everyone is a great player, everyone is doing wonderful things, and on and on.

I think Alou and McRae are basically saying something important, in the nicest possible manner.


#4    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/12/01 (Thu) @ 10:24

Followup:

http://www.murraychass.com/?p=4066

My favorite e-mail came from a former major league manager, whom I will not identify any more than I have used last names of other readers.

“A great article, he said, “Thanks for writing it. It sure hit my ‘home page.’ I’ve had that opinion for a number of years. Saw some of the traits when I was working and he hasn’t done anything to change my opinion of him. Been retired for 15 years and still feel the same way.”

MLB managers last managed between 1994 and 1997

managerID    yearID    nameFirst    nameLast    n
bevinte99m    1997    Terry    Bevington    3
queenme02m    1997    Mel    Queen    1

mcnamjo99m    1996    John    McNamara    19
rojasco01m    1996    Cookie    Rojas    2
lasorto01m    1996    Tommy    Lasorda    21
lachema01m    1996    Marcel    Lachemann    3
greenda02m    1996    Dallas    Green    8
kenneke99m    1996    Kevin    Kennedy    4

jorgemi01m    1995    Mike    Jorgensen    1
andersp01m    1995    Sparky    Anderson    26
reganph01m    1995    Phil    Regan    1

trebeto99m    1994    Tom    Trebelhorn    7
rodgebu01m    1994    Buck    Rodgers    16
hobsobu01m    1994    Butch    Hobson    3

Extra tidbit: not only did Kevin Kennedy last manage exactly 15 years ago, but he was the Rangers manager directly following Bobby V.


#5    Wexler      (see all posts) 2011/12/01 (Thu) @ 16:11

Which is more likely?

1)Valentine is a jerk with no integrity and a complete phony that totally fooled the owners/GMs of the Mets, Rangers, Red Sox, Chiba Lotte Marines (twice!), ESPN, the 100,000 Japanese fans who signed a petition on his behalf, the mayor of Stamford CT who appointed Bobby V the Director of Health & Public Safety (he donated his salary to charity), and the majority of sports writers with whom he worked despite the sometimes adversarial nature of their business (the NJ Sportswriters Assc named him “The Sports Humanitarian of The Year” in 2001)…

OR

2)Valentine is generally a good person with excellent character who deals with most people with integrity and charity, but whose outsized and imposing personality and relatively minor personality defects (some pettiness, a short temper) have rubbed a handful of people the wrong way and gotten them pissed off at him?

The question answers itself and leads one to believe that Murray Chass is a small-minded hack who betrays a pettiness that outruns Valentine’s by a comfortable margin.


#6    MGL      (see all posts) 2011/12/01 (Thu) @ 20:03

I don’t like to characterize anything in a binary fashion and I don’t like to pass judgment on someone’s work that I am not intimately familiar with, however…

From the half dozen things I have read by Chass, I would assign zero credibility to anything he writes.

His writing is borderline bizarre. His recent piece on Tony LaRussa was mind-boggling.


Page 1 of 1 pages


Name (required)
E-Mail (optional; WILL be published)
Website (optional)

<< Back to main


Latest...

COMMENTS

May 25 13:18
Do pitcher’s reach back for velocity when needed?

May 25 13:04
“Why Kickstarter works”

May 25 12:51
Chad Curtis

May 25 12:40
Largest demonstration in Canadian history?

May 25 11:32
Howard Stern

May 25 11:26
Lack of hustle during a game

May 25 11:22
What sabermetrics is NOT

May 25 10:58
Rooting for laundry

May 25 02:38
NFLPA lawsuit against collusion

May 25 01:43
Neal Huntington’s best moves