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THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

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Monday, October 27, 2008

Minorities

By Tangotiger, 10:24 AM

I am not a fan of Hoban, as I am not a fan of most mathy saberists.  Call it a bias on my side.  A good number of them simply go through mathematical gymnastics that really make a believer out of nobody, other than those who are predisposed to drink the kool-aid (either because they are also mathy, or they know the name).  Now, you may think that I fall into this category.  I don’t, or at least I try hard not to be.  I lay out all my work, and when I have the option to get mathy or not, I avoid it.  Bill James once said that his ideas need to be orphans, that he lays out his case, and then, they need to survive on their own.  (I don’t think he’s always true to that idea, but for the most part he probably is, and it’s a great philosophy to have.) Hoban employs two mathy things: Win Shares (which would not survive without James’ name attached to it) and whatever he’s doing at that link.

However, when you deal with group studies, alot of the problems I have with the gymnastics go away.  And, I love any study that examines the minority component of sports, be it Blacks (or non-North Americans) in baseball, or Europeans in the NHL, or even french-speakers on the Canadian national team.

In the NHL, if you look at first round picks over the last decade, or if you look at the top 50 players, year-in and year-out, you will find the same thing: 50% of the best players or best prospects are Europeans.  However, two-thirds of NHL players are North Americans.  I remember a similar study of the Canadian national team (with a usually english head coach): that even though players from the Quebec, Ontario, and Western Junior Hockey leagues have a certain proportion of NHL drafted players, this is completely skewed with their junior national team.  The reason is that given the choice between two similar players, there is an english-bias.  The same applies in the NHL (though there is also a cost component there): for a 4th line player, you may as well go local than international.

Hoban shows us that, among nonpitchers, a large proportion (40%) of the best players in baseball in the last 50 years are black.  But, as we know, 40% of all nonpitchers in baseball are not black.  It’s almost certain a case of racial bias, similar to the hockey bias noted above: given the choice between two very similar players, MLB will (or did anyway) lean toward the white guy.  Now, I don’t think this bias necessarily still exists today.  The pool of players changes, and the bias may be at the college level (and to a lesser extent, high school level).  When I looked at players born outside of North America, the average talent level of those players is comparable to the average talent level of North American players.  If there was a bias, we’d expect the average minority players to be higher than the white players, because, the contention is, there is a disproportionate number of good players within each ethnic or racial class of players, other than white; so they serve to drive the average up.  Like I said, this does not exist among non-USA born players, in this era.

I would love to see a database of players, based on their race, perceived race, and/or skin color.  Lots of people do these studies, and their base research should be provided to further the study of the issue.


#1          (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 13:14

If 40% of the best nonpitchers are black, but only ~10% of all nonpitchers are black, my simple explanation would be that blacks are better athletes, and in general are more interested in football and basketball than baseball.

The ones that do get into baseball and succeed at the major league level are among the best, while others are playing basketball, because the only thing that will motivate them to pick baseball over basketball is superstar potential.

Put another way, if baseball was the only sport in existence, I think you’d see that the percentage of minorities at every “talent level” in the majors would be much more constant.


#2    Xeifrank      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 14:06

If the black component was broken down further, do they tend to do better as hitters, pitchers or is it evenly split? 

I am not sure I buy the argument that one race has better atheletes as mentioned by Jon.
vr, Xei


#3    DQ      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 16:59

The athletes that are choosing between baseball and basketball are doing that pre high school - you see very very few players that are all-state/stars in baseball and basketball in high school.

Players that are 12-13 years old may have “superstar potential” but many of them do not become superstars.

So, there are many players who chose baseball over basketball that did not become superstars and should fill in the middle levels.


#4    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 17:06

Can someone give me the % of players that are Black, by height, in the NBA?  That is, what % of players 6 feet are black?  6’1?  6’2?  6’3? 6’4?  6’5?

If a disproportionate number of blacks, who could play baseball (6’5” and shorter, basically) are instead choosing basketball, then we should see a fairly large share of the 6’0 to 6’4 NBA players as black, compared to those 6’6 to 6’10.


#5    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 17:39

John Grasso’s NBA Biographical Database lists Height and Race for most players. I think the last season that it was updated for was 2005-2006.

members.aol.com/bradleyrd/NBAData1.xls
members.aol.com/bradleyrd/NBAData2.xls

I’ll see if I can’t sort the data the way Tango suggested in post # 4.


#6    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 17:41

John Grasso’s NBA Biographical Database lists Height and Race for most players. I think the last season that it was updated for was 2005-2006.

members.aol.com/bradleyrd/NBAData1.xls
members.aol.com/bradleyrd/NBAData2.xls

I’ll see if I can’t sort the data the way Tango suggested in post # 4.


#7    Ryan JL      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 17:43

You realize that by blindly dismissing the gentleman for being too “mathy” you put yourself on the same level as Bruce Jenkins, et al who simply mock what they refuse to try and understand.

“Math gymnastics” = “lives in mom’s basement”


#8    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 17:45

I found the most updated version of Grasso’s database. This one has been updated for the most recent NBA season (2007-2008):

apbr.org/NBAData1.xls
apbr.org/NBAData2.xls


#9    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 18:01

Here is the data grouped by Race and Height for all players who played in the NBA during the 2007-2008 season:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pzy9IhjJPqatZ-B9DEn4TKg


#10    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 19:21

Height, % Black
-----------------------------
<6 ft, 90% (9/10)
6 ft, 93% (13/14)
6'1, 85% (11/13)
6'2, 78% (18/23)
6'3, 77% (24/31)
6'4, 96% (23/24)
6'5, 82% (23/28)
>6’5, 73% (225/308)
All, 77% (346/451)


#11    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 21:47

terps: fascinating.  So, 73% of players greater than 6’5 are black, but 85% at 6’5 or less are black? 

Good job on you guys saying that there might be black players that are “short” that migrate to basketball.


#12    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/27 (Mon) @ 22:41

We probably should of made the initial point of measurement 6’7 instead of 6’5:

Ht, % Black
-----------
<6'7, 85% (156/183)
>6’7, 71% (190/268)

Another way to look at the data is that 45% of black players are under 6’7 while only 26% of white/oriental players are under 6’7.


#13          (see all posts) 2008/10/28 (Tue) @ 00:52

Didn’t Bill James address the “more superstars than bench players are black” issue many years ago?  I paraphrase (what I remember as) his explanation here.


#14    terpsfan101      (see all posts) 2008/10/28 (Tue) @ 07:16

I was skeptical of the 27% figure as well. It would be interesting to study this issue on a team-by-team basis. The Houston Astros are the first team that comes to mind as a team that has had few black players.

I don’t know if this is a coincidence or not, but there was an add on the bottom of the screen from SodaHead.com that said “90% of Obama & 99% of McCain voters believe Blacks Cannot be Racist, Do You? Click Here” Talk about inappropriate advertising.


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