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Friday, September 21, 2007

LEV v LI

By Tangotiger, 11:09 AM

Joe Sheehan’s turn to talk about Ned Yost, and echoes what has already been said.  (If you want to talk about Ned Yost, go to that thread.) But, that’s not why I’m here.  He talks about the “Leverage score” (LEV), and refers to this for Brewers. The correct Leverage Index (LI) are here. LEV is not LI, and no one should confuse the two, nor think that each has some advantage over the other.  They don’t.  LEV should not be used to discuss leverage of situations as Joe Sheehan is doing.  Ever. This was discussed in…


...part 2 of a 3-part series.  As readers of this blog knows, at the risk of sounding like Homer Simpson, I have double-dared anyone at BP to justify their Leverage scores over mine.  I’ll let you know if a brave soul over there will take me on. I’m always very cordial with all the gang (Dan, Will, Nate, Joe)there when I deal with them one-on-one.  But, right is right.  The more I see LEV used over there, the more I’m upping the ante. 

***

An interlude if I may on quality checking:

The BP list that Joe pointed to has a bug in it (which I did report to them… I may have sounded like a jerk up there, but I’m an honest one), whereby the “IP” totals is their seasonal IP, not their relief IP, but their LEV is their relief LEV.  Dave Bush has 3 relief innings, and 170 starter innings.  Fangraphs has his LI as starter and relief as 0.96, 3.15.  BP has his LEV as 5.22. 

A second problem is a LEV of 5.22.  In Table 2-2.4 of BBTN, the highest possible LEV score is 4.21 (tie game, 2 outs, bases empty).  No reasonable person would ever conclude that this situation is the highest possible leverage, so why keep saying that it is?  Anyway, how can Bush have a LEV of 5.22, if the highest possible LEV is 4.21?

The BP list seems to have a minimum starter+relief IP qualifier (Aquino is not in the list), which is confusing to have Bush there, but not Aquino.  And showing Sheets at all is triply-confusing.

***

Back to the comparison.  Scott Linebrink has an LI of 1.40 according to Fangraphs (which uses my data), but an LI of 1.08 according to BP’s LEV.  Fangraphs has Matt Wise at 0.77, but BP has him at 0.96.  The biggest gap is with Manuel Parra: LI of 0.61 and LEV of 1.20.  So, LI thinks that Parra has been used in low-leverage situations mostly, while LEV thinks that when he’s been used, it’s been in more critical situations than Scott Linebrink.  I’ll do the analysis if someone wants to argue that they believe that BP has it right (just don’t play Devil’s Advocate).

#1    HarryAbles      (see all posts) 2007/09/21 (Fri) @ 12:26

I hate the grains of salt that come into play when someone’s loyalty is to a brand name instead of objectivity.


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/09/21 (Fri) @ 13:59

I’ve also railed on BP for replacement level and using Runs Created.  Those however are more philosophical disagreements. 

I like to consider replacement level at around .300, and could live with it being as low as .250.  Clay (and by extension BP) uses .150.  Clay is in the clear minority on this one and has a tougher job to explain himself.  But, he could possibly muster enough evidence to support himself.  However, that has never happened.  I’d also be willing to debate that with them.

Strangely, rather than using EqR as their basis for VORP (and MLVr), they use Bill James old RC equation (one that even James himself doesn’t use).  It’s one of those things that is so buried under the machinations of the process, that no one bothers to look, and deride BP for using.  This one, while blatantly a very poor choice, is not “wrong”, because anything short of an all-encompassing sim would be “wrong”.  However, it’s an extremely poor choice, one that BP should not be making.  BaseRuns is the obvious choice here.

***

One thing that BP has straightened out is they have gotten rid of Pythagenport in favor of Pythagenpat.  What would be nice however is if they call it Pythagenpat or whatever name David/Patriot want, rather than continuing to use Pythagenport as the name.

And another is that Woolner did use the Tango Distribution over his, even though that was also a philosophical choice.

In both these instances, they went with the cleaner method that works a bit better in the normal range, and much better at the extremes.  {clap clap clap}

***

While I’m here… will OPS+ go away please?  No one will bother to calculate OPS+ on their own.  So, why not calculate some form of Runs Created as a “+” metric.  I made my voice loud and clear in posts 193, 195 here:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/suggestions

Even if Sean doesn’t make the change, what I like is that he has a public forum about it.


#3    MGL      (see all posts) 2007/09/21 (Fri) @ 17:46

I can live with OPS as it is easly calculated and understood by everyone, especially the casual, yet somewhat statistically oriented, fan.  However, I agree with Tango that since no one is going to calclate OPS+ AND it is only a relative number, why not use a MUCH better estimator of context-neutral offensive contribution, which is clearly some version of lwts.  It would (can) yield a number that looks exactly OPS+ (100 is league average, etc.) but the underlying metric (lwts rather than OPS) is MUCH better.  I “gag” when I see/hear analysts quote OPS+, either for a career, or year, or what have you.  They are ALL taking it off of the B-R site, so why not have the B-R site supply something much better and just as easy for them to compute (lwts+).

I would be happy to provide them with my lwts formula which is based on Palmer’s, but separates things like GB outs, FB outs, K outs, and infield singles, and uses lwt values tailored to the current run environment.  You can optionally include SB/CS if you want, although that is probably not advised since SB attempts are something else, just like defense and non-SB baserunning are something else as well.

Can someone send these last 2 posts to Sean?


#4    Anthony      (see all posts) 2007/09/22 (Sat) @ 11:20

Regarding your comment on VORP, can BaseRuns be applied to players?

Let’s say I wanted to use a run estimator on the Lahman database. What formula should I use? Is BaseRuns right for team and league calculations, and something else for players?


#5    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/09/22 (Sat) @ 11:36

LWTS for hitters, BaseRuns for pitchers.

However, with the “8/9ths” approach that MLVr uses, BaseRuns is what you want.


#6    MGL      (see all posts) 2007/09/22 (Sat) @ 23:08

Yes what Tango said and BaseRuns for teams.


#7    Sky      (see all posts) 2007/09/24 (Mon) @ 15:17

On a somewhat related note, Nate made reference to WARPs (too-)low baseline in his recent chat:

Dave B. (Lowell, MA): Nate, How on earth is Rollins now a front runner for MVP? He is having nowhere near the season Wright or Ramirez are.

Nate Silver: Rollins has an 8.8 WARP1 as compared with Wright’s 9.5 and Ramirez’ 7.6. You also have Chase Utley at 8.2 and Jose Reyes at 8.0 and Albert Pujols at 10.1. Pujols, really, should probably be the guy, but if you restrict yourself to contending teams, then I think Rollins, Wright and Utley are all pretty reasonable choices. I give Utley a little bit of extra credit because WARP really punishes you more than it maybe should for missing playing time, and Rollins because he’s creating a few extra runs on the basepaths that aren’t reflected in his SB totals.


#8    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/12/07 (Fri) @ 11:50

Doesn’t really belong here, but someone was asking about how to link a player’s performance to how he should be used in the bullpen.  I came up with something really quick.  No idea if it really works, but, it’s probably a decent approximator:

To help in your regression, you can try to convert LI into a rate.

rateLI = LI/(LI+1)

An average LI will have a rateLI of .500.  League leaders have an LI of around 2, so they get a rateLI of .667.  League trailers have an LI of around 0.5, so they get a rateLI of .333.

If the team ERA for relievers is 4.50, with a range from 3.0 to 6.0, you can probably due:
rateLI = (tmERA - ERA)/10 + .5

So, an ERA of 3.00 ends up with an expected rateLI of .65.  And rateLI of .65 implies .65/.35=LI=1.86.

Seems like a reasonable approach…

***

Any word from BP that they will abandon their LEV in favor of LI?  My terms for using LI are fairly lenient: use them as you like, without having to charge someone to see the results.


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