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Sunday, December 18, 2011

Latos and park factors

By Tangotiger, 11:51 AM

Too much is made of matchup stats (i.e., how batter X does against pitcher Y after 20-40 plate appearances, while ignoring each player’s career 2000 plate appearances).

At the same time, is too little made of individual player-park factors?  If you have 3000 plate appearances of Barry Bonds at 3Com and away from 3Com (is that what it was called then?  I can’t keep up with corporate names), and he hits as many HR at home as he does on the road, do we really care that the average LHH hits two-thirds as many HR at 3Com than away?  I say: NO!  Barry Bonds has very little in common with those hitters, other than handedness, but (traditional) park factors DEMAND that we treat Bonds as being tightly coupled with that group.

This is Mat Latos’s career Petco / non-Petco slash line (BA, OBP, SLG):
.229 .287 .348
.224 .286 .351

I won’t even bother to tell you which is Petco and which is not, since it’s the same thing!  The question is: did he simply have made luck at Petco and good luck away from Petco?  Or, is his talent level such that it’s an important parameter when looking at the park factors of the rest of the players?  That is, with Bonds, he hits HR so far, that it doesn’t matter that 3Com suppresses HR.

Similarly, is Petco such that Latos can’t benefit from its pitcher-friendliness?  I DON’T KNOW.  But, these are the kinds of valid questions that are out there.

Latos’ strikeout rate per PA is 23.7% at home and 23.4% on the road.  His walk rate is 6.9% at home, 7.9% on the road.  His HR rate is the same 2.2% at home and on the road.  His BABIP is .283 at home and .276 on the road.

Therefore, we need to do just like we do with handedness splits: personalize them.  In The Book, we showed that you take the observed handedness splits and regress them toward the league mean (by adding 1000 PA for LHH and 2200 for RHH, to the number of their PA against LHP).  We need to come up with the same thing for parks.

The problem is that you may have to come up with a different regression amount for each park AND for each quality of player.  It makes it a tougher job.

So, we can’t presume that Latos was either:
a. completely unaffected by Petco (as evidenced by his splits)
b. extremely unlucky at Petco (as evidenced by all MLB players at Petco)

The truth is somewhere in the middle.


#1    MGL      (see all posts) 2011/12/18 (Sun) @ 15:19

My guess is that it is much closer to b.  I doubt that pitchers as a whole have much in the way of unique park factors.

One easy way to test this is to take all the pitchers with no or reverse park splits in one year and look at them the next year. Do this for several years of course in order to have a large sample.  My guess is that these pitchers will regress almost 100% toward the normal splits for those parks. You can do the same thing for pitchers with extreme park splits (in the “normal” direction for that park).

E.g., split all 30 parks into 2 groups - pitchers and hitters parks (you can leave out the neutral parks if you want).  For the hitters parks, look at all pitchers with better (or the same) stats in those parks, adjusted for H/R of course.  Do the same for the pitcher’s parks - compile a list of pitchers who performed worse in those parks.  Then look at each group the next year.

Again, my guess is that they will regress most of the way towards the normal park splits.

I actually suspect much the same for hitters, although perhaps not to quite the same extent as the pitchers. I reject Tango’s theory about Bonds (that we can completely ignore the normal LHH park splits at Pac Bell in favor of Bonds’ own splits).


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/12/18 (Sun) @ 15:58

Well, we can never completely reject anything, but I’m saying that we’ll have a regression point in splits that may be to add say 500 PA of 3Com park factors to Bonds’ 3000 actual PA there.

And, that regression amount may be different for different quality of players.


#3    MGL      (see all posts) 2011/12/18 (Sun) @ 20:52

I think, if anything, it is the reverse. 6 parts 3COM and 1 part Bonds’ splits. Should be more or less testable…


#4    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/12/18 (Sun) @ 21:33

Since I’m suggesting power-hitting LHH at Pac Bell, it’s going to be a bit tough, but not impossible.  Dunn, Edmonds, Helton, Larry Walker, Gonzalez, guys like that.  I’d like to see how they hit at Pac Bell.


#5          (see all posts) 2011/12/18 (Sun) @ 21:47

Bonds had about 1700 PA at Candlestick/3Com Park and about 2000 PA at PacBell/SBC/AT&T Park, FWIW.


#6    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/12/18 (Sun) @ 22:09

Thanks Mike, I was going on memory. 2000 PA it is then.  Maybe I was thinking of 300 as the number?  150 HR at home and 150 on the road?  Something like that…


#7    MGL      (see all posts) 2011/12/19 (Mon) @ 01:18

First let’s see if there appears to be any “park skill” among the entire population. If there doesn’t, then I am not really interested in debating whether a small subset of players or a certain player does or does not.

I’m doing some tests right now…


#8    MGL      (see all posts) 2011/12/19 (Mon) @ 06:03

Here is some preliminary stuff:

I looked at all player with a “reverse” park factor in hitters (>1.01 PF) and pitchers (<.99) parks in each year from 00-10. Players had to have at least 200 PA at home and on the road to qualify.

Here are the aggregate results, with each player weighted equally (not by PA):

Hitters parks

Average run park factor: 1.06
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): .89

Then I looked at those same players’ H/R wOBA ratio the next year if they played in the same park and again had at least 200 PA home and 200 PA road.

Next year

Average run park factor: 1.06
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): 1.03

Pitchers parks

Average run park factor: .96
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): 1.15

Next year

Average run park factor: .96
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): 1.01

All players in those hitters parks had a H/R wOBA ratio of 1.045, thus that is our expected ratio.

In the pitchers parks, all players were .985.

So the players in the hitters parks regressed 90% and those in the pitchers parks, 85%.


#9    MGL      (see all posts) 2011/12/19 (Mon) @ 06:04

Here is the same data for pitchers:

Hitters parks

Average run park factor: 1.07
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): .90

Next year

Average run park factor: 1.07
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): 1.02

Pitchers parks

Average run park factor: .96
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): 1.14

Next year

Average run park factor: .95
Average player home/road wOBA ratio (adjusted for HFA): 1.00

All pitchers in those hitters parks had a H/R wOBA ratio of 1.04, thus that is our expected ratio.

In the pitchers parks, all pitchers were .99.

So the pitchers in the hitters parks regressed 86% and those in the pitchers parks, 93%.

So there does appear to be an ability/style among both pitchers and hitters that would suggest a unique park factor.  However, in one year samples, the noise appears to significantly outweigh this effect, such that you would regress a player’s own one year park factor around 85-90% toward the overall park factor for that park.

These numbers imply adding around 2500 PA of “normal” park splits to a player’s own park splits to get his unique park factor.  For Latos, that would be around a 60% regression. That suggests that he may be a little bit better than his “normally” park adjusted stats would suggest.


#10    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/12/19 (Mon) @ 09:08

Great stuff!

Ok, so given this so far, we see that the regression amount indicates the personalized park split is about as real as a personalized handedness split.

So, we can see how if we focus on something more unique, like extreme talent, that those players may have more true personalized splits (that they are less affected by parks than the average guy).

Plenty of fertile ground if other aspiring saberists want to join the party.


#11    pm      (see all posts) 2011/12/19 (Mon) @ 10:32

Do you guys have a database for this sort of data? How long does it usually take you to finish a research assignment?


#12    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/12/19 (Mon) @ 10:44

pm: google
Retrosheet Database

And that’ll get you started…


#13    MGL      (see all posts) 2011/12/19 (Mon) @ 14:41

Right. I used the retrosheet database. This particular inquiry took me a few hours - 3 or 4. It obviously depends on your approach and database skills. Most people use commercial database programs and do queries. I write my own parsing and analysis programs.


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