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Tuesday, June 26, 2007

Inferring Injuries

By Tangotiger, 11:01 AM

When you establish the true talent level of a player (or create a forecast, which is essentially the same thing), you want to know if he is healthy or not.  And, if he’s not healthy, how unhealthy, and how persistent is his illness.  So, you try to infer such things.  If a player plays 159, 160, 154, 159, 161, 112 games, his OPS+ at any point in that stretch bottomed at 133, and the player is 27 years old at that point, we infer an injury. We don’t need to look more closely at the situation, though it could have been the case of someone even better usurping his playing time.  You always have a certain uncertainty level.  And if the player is 37 instead of 27, we may be more inclined to infer a longer rehab period.  But, we still don’t know what kind of injury because the data doesn’t tell us much more.

John Walsh shows us the data for Curt Schilling.  Now, we don’t need to infer if his performance was about balls falling in for a hit, or whether his true talent level was marketdly different.  We remove that uncertainty level with the data.  Depending on the nature of the illness, we’ll be able to either discount the data from this performance more, or place a greater premium on it.  We’re always looking for the establishment of a new talent level, as opposed to randomness creating noise around the data.  It’s data like this that we need.

And for MLB teams that are not doing this.... are you kidding me?  What Walsh, Fox, Beamer, Sheehan, Appleman, et al are doing is the cutting edge of sabermetrics, the point where performance and scouting converge.  This is the pot of gold that is being prospected.

***

Further research would go into the “mix” of pitches, and the “strategy” of pitches, based on the game state (inning, score, base, out) conditions… i.e., Leverage Index.

***

The data itself also has a certain amount of uncertainty, as can be easily seen with David Wells having a bunch of pitches being released from the wrong side of the mound (four feet from where it should be). 


#1    joe p      (see all posts) 2007/06/26 (Tue) @ 12:41

I think the release points showing up on the wrong side of the body is a result of the system picking up a glove or the pitcher’s head in a spot where the release point for a pitcher with the other hand would be.  For some reason, when I looked at this earlier in the year, I noticed that sidearmers had more of a problem with this. 

With the differences in height for the release points compared to Atlanta, it seems like there needs to be some sort of park factor for the release points.


#2    John      (see all posts) 2007/06/26 (Tue) @ 15:13

I dont know if this is the right place to ask but I assume there’s people here that are using the enhanced game data.  I can get one start into excel by simply loading excel and importing the URL into it and it gives me the headings and everything.  However, my problem is I cant seem to add more then one onto the same sheet.  I know its probably something very simple but I cant seem to figure out whats wrong.  I can put another game on the sheet but it gives me headers again and for some reason those headers i cant seem to delete.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


#3    joe p      (see all posts) 2007/06/26 (Tue) @ 15:47

When you import the xml, in the box where you select the destination for the xml, there is a button labeled ‘properties’.  Click that, then select the option at the bottom that says something like ‘append new data to existing lists’.  Make sure that option is checked instead of the one that says ‘overwrite existing data’.


#4    dan      (see all posts) 2007/06/26 (Tue) @ 16:00

I’m sure Joe can correct me if I’m flat wrong about this, but in my limited toying around with the EG data, I’ve found Atlanta to be the least reliable stadium in terms of simply picking up pitches, let alone their correspondence with other parks.


#5    John      (see all posts) 2007/06/26 (Tue) @ 16:00

Thanks.

For some reason when i import the xml file in Excel it gives me a blue box around the information and it wouldnt let me just copy and paste into that box so the only other option i had was to do it below the box, which is fine except it was giving me another blue box with headers on it again that couldnt be deleted lol.

I need to take an excel course or something.


#6    MGL      (see all posts) 2007/06/26 (Tue) @ 20:42

It seems to me that the biggest, by far, indicator of an injury or age catching up to a pitcher, or both, is fastball speed.  And the easiest to monitor of course.  Some pitchers seem to normally vary their fastball speeds from start to start but I think this is relatively rare.  Most pitchers are pretty darn consistent in how fast (at least the range) they throw their fastball.  If that speed is down even a few mph, it usually signals trouble.  For example, Schmidt this year, or Mussina, Rivera, or even RJ the last few years (when he stopped throwing 97-98 and started throwing 92-94 he was a different pitcher - when he was hurt and still pitching, he was throwing in the upper 80’s and getting shelled).


#7    Peter Jensen      (see all posts) 2007/06/26 (Tue) @ 23:30

I agree with MGL.  And for hitters hit ball speed will probably be just as indicative of problems as soon as we can get MLB Pitch f/x to measure it for us.


#8    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/06/27 (Wed) @ 11:04

I do remember Hal McRae saying that he couldn’t catch up to the outside pitches in his old age, which forced him to stand closer to the plate than he wanted.

There is alot of “toolsy” scouting that can be recorded that is far more effective than the results of performance (SLG, OBP, etc) in small samples.  That’s really where the problem is, that scouting is preferred, because it measures the actual tools we’re interested in (except for the guy’s brain, so that we can distinguish between Dykstra and Billy Beane), but that our measurement tools were based mostly on someone else’s eyes.

That’s why the gameday-type data is the holy grail.  It gives you the nut and bolts to establish the scouting data you really need.

I can’t wait until we can measure the guy’s heart rate and perspiration levels!


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