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Monday, June 06, 2011

“Earning” a hold, while doing a horrible job

By Tangotiger, 05:12 PM

J-doug points out:

In yesterday’s game against the Arizona Diamondbacks, Washington Nationals closer Drew Storen had what could only be described as a meltdown appearance. If not for the triage work of Todd Coffey, Sean Burnett and Henry Rodriguez, as well as a five-run 11th courtesy of a Rick Ankiel sacks-juiced walk and a Mike Morse grand slam, Storen would have squandered the curly-W.

All in all, Drew Storen’s butcher job amassed a dismal -0.449 Win Probability Added (-0.457 WPA if you ask FanGraphs instead of Baseball Reference).

He also earned the hold.

Wait, what’s that you say? Storen earned the hold even though it was his runners who tied the game? He earned the hold even though he was on the hook for the loss should Coffey allow another inherited runner to score?

Yes, that’s correct. In fact, Storen’s HD is the 10th worst in WPA terms since the stat was invented, and the 4th worst in a winning game. It’s easily the most detrimental hold this season.

And had the Nationals lost in the 9th, Storen would have kept his HD and earned the loss, while Coffey would get the blown save and the Nationals would drop another game below .500. How is this possible?

He also gives us this juicy tidbit:

As further evidence of the absurdity of the hold stat, a whopping 3,278 holds classify as meltdowns since the hold was invented, compared to four saves.

The meltdown that he mentions is the thing I cooked up last year or so.  That there is such a non-link between saves and meltdowns, but such a huge link goes to show that a “hold” is often just in name only.

I agree with Jesse that Dewan was obviously well-intentioned.  But, does this mean that the mainstream has to continue to accept the Hold stat? 

***

A great use of WPA by the way.  WPA is great for turning a word description of the game into a nice cold number.  It makes analysis much easier.


#1          (see all posts) 2011/06/06 (Mon) @ 18:42

How is it mathematically possible for a save to be a meltdown? Obviously, since there have only been 4 out of thousands and thousands of saves it is nearly impossible, but since the win probability at the end of a game is always 1, wouldn’t the win probability be greater than 1 when the pitcher entered for him to get a negative WPA? What am I missing?


#2    Craig Glaser      (see all posts) 2011/06/06 (Mon) @ 21:23

I was going to post exactly what Leo said.  It’s not really a fair comparison because part of getting a save is the fact that your team ends with a WE of 100%.

I believe it happens if you come in before the 9th AND your team scores after you come in (bot 8, top of the 9th.) Quite different than how you get a hold and meltdown.


#3          (see all posts) 2011/06/06 (Mon) @ 21:27

You’re missing that the pitcher can pitch multiple innings, and only the last one need have a positive WPA. Say the pitcher comes in in the 7th up 3, and gets the last out. Then his team scores 6 runs in the top of the 8th to put them up 9. He gives up 8 in the 8th but manages to eek it out of the inning and then also ends the game.

Really, the big reason why you won’t see this happen is bullpen usage. a) relievers don’t get the multiple innings while also finishing the game that they need to rack up the negative WPAs and still get the win since closers don’t pitch more than an inning. Also, a guy having a meltdown (without being aware of Tango’s post where he statistically defined this term) is usually going to be pulled before it gets too close.


#4    seank      (see all posts) 2011/06/06 (Mon) @ 21:43

http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/shareit/q9OCV

Since 1919*, I count 82 games with a negative WPA while recording a save and 17 games with a meltdown and a save.

* I think it’s actually since 1950 because play-by-play data is required.


#5    ElBonte      (see all posts) 2011/06/06 (Mon) @ 23:14

sean/4:
That’s a great list.  I love the 8-run-allowed “save”.


#6    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/06/06 (Mon) @ 23:26

You guys are right that the comparison I made is not fair, because one-inning saves would imply a positive WPA (because it collapses to a 100% win expectancy).

Good job.

Still doesn’t take away from the fact that holds should be discarded.


#7    J-Doug      (see all posts) 2011/06/07 (Tue) @ 03:51

I don’t feel that it’s an unfair comparison.

The fact that a closer must leave the game with a team WPA of 1.000 to receive a save but a setup man need not hold his team above a certain WPA threshold to earn the hold is the entire reason why the hold makes even less sense than the save, despite the fact that they have the same criteria on face value.


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