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THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

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Monday, March 07, 2011

Do we want to know about peak years for HOF?

By Tangotiger, 04:04 PM

Adam Dorowski, as per VivaEl:

Essentially, wWAR double counts anything from 3.1-6.0 WAR and triple counts anything at or above 6.1 WAR.  You’d total these numbers for players across their entire career and use this as a Hall of Fame comparison instead of just straight WAR perhaps.... “Voters want a guy who was the best at his position for a certain period of time. Quiet consistency is boring. They want Ryne Sandberg (62.1 WAR) and not Lou Whitaker (69.7 WAR)."… If we know anything, it’s that voters for the Hall of Fame talk a lot. But are they holding true to this axiom? Adam’s anecdotal remark aside, I’ve never seen a comprehensive analysis that shows players with better peaks are more likely to get into the hall of fame than players with comparable overall value but worse peaks.  So we’re making, what seems to me, a leap of faith here that voting patterns are intrinsically consistent with an argument that’s unverified.

Fair enough.  Let me give it a first go.

I ran a simple correlation of:
1. Total WAR
2. Number of 3-6 WAR seasons
3. Number of 6+ WAR seasons

The T-stat was 0.0 for #1, 7.5 for #2 and 18.7 for #3!  That is, knowing the total WAR gives us NOTHING AT ALL, if we already know the number of good or great seasons a player has had.  The number of great seasons (6+ WAR) is what counts the most.

The correlation is r=.68 based just on these three stats (really, just the two).  Data was against players born between 1895 (Ruth) and 1958 (Rickey).  Here are some highlights:


These players were overqualified, in that the estimate was greater than 100%:

aaroh101
maysw101
ruthb101
musis101
schmm001
gehrl101
hornr101
willt103
ott-m101
mantm101
hendr001

These players are all at 50%+ of being in the Hall of Fame, but are not:
gehrc101
rosep001
wynnj101
santr102
appll101
bands101
whitl001 <-- Whitaker
bellb001
trama001

These are players who had a less than 50% chance of making the HOF based on their “peak” seasons, but are nonetheless in the HOF:

dawsa001
murre001
smito001
starw101
winfd001
peret001
ricej001
brocl102

Except for Rice and Brock, all had at least 50 WAR.

***

There were 61 players born between 1895 and 1958 with between 50 and 70 WAR.  31 of those are in the HOF.  Among THOSE players, the T-stat is highest for the WAR parameter.  But, number of 3+ WAR seasons is close behind AS A NEGATIVE.

That is, among players on the borderline, total WAR is a much stronger indicator than number of great seasons.  For example, there are 8 players with at least 12 3+ WAR seasons, and only two of them is in the HOF: Brooks Robinson, Carlton Fisk.  There are 11 players with AT MOST 8 3+ WAR seasons, and 7 of them are in the HOF (Perez, Dawson, Stargell among others).

However, among players with at least 5+ 6 WAR seasons, 7 of 9 are in HOF (not Santo, Jimmy Wynn).

***

All to say: it depends where you are in total WAR.  If you’ve got less than 40 WAR, it’s extremely hard to make it, even if you have alot of good seasons.  If you’ve got more than 70 WAR, you’re going to make it, regardless of how few good seasons.  And between 40 and 70, things start to balance out from one point to the other.

#1          (see all posts) 2011/03/07 (Mon) @ 17:41

Gehringer and Appling are in the Hall of Fame.  I don’t know if that changes anything.


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/03/07 (Mon) @ 18:14

It won’t change anything, but now I have to find out why I didn’t have them…


#3    JD      (see all posts) 2011/03/07 (Mon) @ 18:23

Is it possible that using WAR is a bad idea for this study? Consider that we’re not necessarily looking for ACTUAL great seasons, but PERCEIVED great seasons. This is especially true for earlier eras.

In other words, writers who vote didn’t look at WAR (many now don’t). Instead, they looked at other stats, some of them not very useful (thinking primarily RBIs here). Plenty of baseball people would call a 100+ RBI season a very good/great season for a hitter, but we know that’s not necessarily true.

So my question: Should we use some other method to test what Adam proposes? Shouldn’t we use the writers’ typical standards of “great,” since what we’re trying to determine is voting pattern moreso than which actually great players are getting into the HOF?


#4    Lou W      (see all posts) 2011/03/07 (Mon) @ 19:43

Interesting point JD.  Basically, do we have a wWAR, or writers-WAR, based predominantly on RBI, Batting Average, postseason performance, et al.  A single number value that correlates strongly with voting patterns for MVP, Cy Young, and HoF?  To an extent, I guess I am describing something like a yearly version of Bill James’ HOF Monitor.


#5    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/03/07 (Mon) @ 20:23

James’ HOF monitor describes the defacto standards and is what you are talking about.


#6    Davor      (see all posts) 2011/03/08 (Tue) @ 03:35

There are 3 ways to get into 50-70 WAR range: being very good player for a long time (lots of 3 - 6 seasons), being good player for very long time (less 3 - 6 seasons, but more years playing) and being superstar with shorter career (more 6+ and 3- than 3 - 6 seasons). It’s not surprising that writers like the least those who were very good, but not great during the whole career. Specially if most of their WAR comes from OBP or defense, except SS.


#7    Matthew Cornwell      (see all posts) 2011/03/08 (Tue) @ 20:48

"If you’ve got more than 70 WAR, you’re going to make it, regardless of how few good seasons.”

Every eligible, non-banned, post-20th century player with 70+ rWAR is in the HOF wit the exception of Bagwell, who will likely make it someday.

We shall see if Mussina breaks the trend.  Hopefully not.


#8    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/03/08 (Tue) @ 21:05

I should have noted that I only looked at non-pitchers.

But, yeah, that 70 WAR line seems pretty solid.

The 55 WAR line is the 50/50 point, best exemplified by Andre Dawson, the ideal borderline candidate.


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