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Friday, March 20, 2009

Changing the qualities of players

By Tangotiger, 03:34 PM

Pizza Cutter wants us to think-inside-the-head.  He talks in part about game theory, which MGL gave it a good once over in The Book.  Pizza says:

Consider the now-famous post on U.S.S. Mariner concerning Felix Hernandez’s pitch selection.  To simply say that King Felix likes to throw a lot of fastballs early in the game is descriptive (and true).  To point out the obvious that hitters were going to eventually pick up on it is changing the pitcher himself.  Now, his past behavior doesn’t predict his future behavior because of the awareness of the past behavior itself.  I have to wonder how many other pitchers fall into patterns (fastball-then-slider) without thinking about it, patterns that could be uncovered with just a little sleuthing through the data.  Make a pitcher aware of his pattern, and you break the pattern.  Suddenly, he’s a different pitcher.  If you know the answer to the question, it changes the question.

I’ll disagree with his point here:

If there’s one mistake that the Sabermetric movement has made over the past few years (perhaps not intentionally, but certainly, it’s been made) is that we’ve reduced players to glorified, if quite advanced, Strat-o-matic cards.

I think that’s the best thing we could have done.  It’s taken me a long while to get to where I am in terms of understanding how to use the numbers.  It’s not for lack of effort or inspiration.  It’s more in terms of exploration.  Bill James and Pete Palmer had to do their Columbus.  Then the next group of us came along and did our Magellan.  It was all part of the growing pains.  Eventually, someone else will be our Neil Armstrong (and Zefram Cochrane).  But, the road had to be paved for them.

I think by doing the work we did as coldly as we did, we’ve set the landscape.  And I agree that the next step is the warm-hearted work, the game theory, the tendencies, physical characteristics, and behaviour of humans.  But, we needed to get past our numeric stage.  I think we’re close to making the jump. 

All of the defenders of the “world is flat” simply don’t stand up to the scrutiny.  They make lazy excuses, or simply want to remain in a pool of ignorance because it gives them comfort to keep doing things their way.  Good.  The world is big enough for all of us.  Join us if you want.  Just don’t stand in our way.


#1    Pizza Cutter      (see all posts) 2009/03/20 (Fri) @ 16:50

A fair critique.  We’d probably still be in the dark ages of “David Ortiz is so clutch” and have that pass for psychological analysis if not for the work of the past ten years (and Bill and Pete before that).  My point is that we’re not only ready to make the next jump into real contextual analysis, I think it’s high time we did. 

Maybe it’s just my bias at work.  But, it’s an area that is just waiting to be explored.  If anyone wants to win the Nobel Prize in Sabermetrics (why isn’t there one?), then here’s an uncharted territory for you to venture into.

(And sadly, I know exactly who Zefram Cochrane is...)


#2    salb918      (see all posts) 2009/03/20 (Fri) @ 17:06

The USS Mariner example is a good one.  Tim Purpura mentioned that he would show pitchers data about what happens in certain counts.  I recall that Rick Petersen did the same when he was in Oakland.  These are obviously simple examples of what could be possible, but the sales pitch might not be as hard as I once thought it might be.


#3          (see all posts) 2009/03/20 (Fri) @ 21:39

"Eventually, someone else will be our Neil Armstrong (and Zefram Cochrane).”

What do you mean, eventually, in Cochrane’s case? Don’t we already have WARP?


#4    Brian Cartwright      (see all posts) 2009/03/21 (Sat) @ 03:13

Maybe we could ask Richard Daystrom to run some projections on his computer


#5    Terry      (see all posts) 2009/03/21 (Sat) @ 16:04

Can plate discipline be taught?

If so can it be taught to a 25 yo?


#6    Pizza Cutter      (see all posts) 2009/03/21 (Sat) @ 17:29

Terry/5.  Perhaps taking a player from no-clue-flailing-away to DiMaggio can’t be done, but why not incremental improvement?  My own work on plate discipline says that what we call plate discipline has two parts, the ability to discern whether a pitch is a strike or not and the player’s propensity to swing.  A player may swing too much or too little.  It may be tough to make a player’s visual recognition system better, but changing a player’s bias toward swinging more or less could probably be done.


#7    Rally      (see all posts) 2009/03/22 (Sun) @ 01:16

"What do you mean, eventually, in Cochrane’s case? Don’t we already have WARP?”

In theory, yes, but until it gets the right replacement level it ain’t going anywhere.


#8    Colin Wyers      (see all posts) 2009/03/22 (Sun) @ 01:25

Can someone please check the BP 2009 annual to see if the new WARP tops out at 10?


#9    Eric Seidman      (see all posts) 2009/03/22 (Sun) @ 10:52

I do some work for a pitcher and he is deadset on the combination of stats and the human element, curious about studies that will help him reduce the fear of failure in his head… and he has mentioned that there are others he knows that feel similarly, even if they don’t realize their feelings amount to this marriage of stats and human tendencies.


#10    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2009/04/03 (Fri) @ 11:19

The MVN to The Book to MVN to The Book discussion continues:
http://statspeak.net/2009/04/why-havent-sabermetrics-gone-mainstream.html

I agree that Fantasy is the path to salvation.  I was shocked to hear from kids and teenagers who had no idea what OBP was, but knew all about batting average.  I was so disappointed.  I really thought that once the old generation dies, the new generation will come in with the right ideas.  But it seems that peace in the mideast is more likely to happen than the shunning of BA and the acceptance of OBP.

All Fantasy league commissioners should adopt a rule: NO MORE batting average.  Replace it with OBP.  I’m running the Forecast Challenge 2009, and guess what, I’ve got BA there.  In my bid in trying to keep the Fantasy dollars relevant, I submerged myself to the lowest common denominator. 

***

The larger point about not going mainstream: why would we want it to? Sometimes niche is nice.


#11          (see all posts) 2009/04/03 (Fri) @ 16:13

How about this story

“NEW YORK (AP)—Derek Jeter and David Wright are competing for more than just pennants this year.

The New York Yankees captain and the New York Mets star will try to outdo each other offensively for their foundations. Delta Air Lines will award $100,000 to the foundation of the player with the highest batting average and $50,000 to the foundation of the runner-up.”

sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=ApNNyt6x0VciR2MjLyOnV2ARvLYF?slug=ap-jeter-wright&prov=ap&type=lgns


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