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THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

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Wednesday, August 12, 2009

Chance of injury by playing out-of-position

By Tangotiger, 07:28 PM

Will Carroll says:

One of the most misunderstood issues with changing positions is the injury risk that’s entailed. Over the past five seasons for which I have detailed injury data, players moving to a new position had a 30 percent greater chance of injury. This was across the board, whether the move was simple—like switching from left field to right—or more complicated, like going from the outfield to second base, as Kelly Johnson did a couple of seasons ago. (And that was after coming up as a player who was playing the left side of the infield in the minors.)

It’s a bit counterintuitive that no single position is higher risk than others, even one like second base, where the second baseman’s back is to the double play in most situations. However it also clearly points to the major cause of these injuries: unfamiliarity.

On a related note, I can confirm, and have shown, that there is a familiarity factor with switching positions in terms of performance.  Something on the order of losing 4 runs per season by playing someone out of position at a related position (2B/SS/3B, or LF/CF/RF), and 8 runs by playing out of a position at an unrelated position (IF to OF).

Now, I can believe that the injury factor will also go up.  30% sounds insanely high though.  I would love for Will to present the data (or send me the data) to verify the claim.


#1    MGL      (see all posts) 2009/08/12 (Wed) @ 19:47

Haven’t read Will’s article, but it depends on what you mean by “30% higher.”

If the chance of a DL stay at any position is 5% in any one year, a 30% increase could be 35% or it could be 31.5%, right?  Plus, you would have to define what you mean by “chance of injury” in the first place.  So I would say that the words “30% greater chance of injury” without giving the data or explaining what you mean (and maybe he did in the article), is insanely meaningless…


#2    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2009/08/12 (Wed) @ 20:07

I was taking it to mean that if you had a 10% chance, then 30% higher would be 13%.


#3    MGL      (see all posts) 2009/08/12 (Wed) @ 20:23

10% chance means what?  10% chance of ending up on the DL at least one time per season?  An average of 10% of a season lost to injury?  I really have no idea what the baseline is and no idea what “30% greater” is.  I can neither be skeptical nor in agreement without seeing the data, including the sample sizes, etc.  I realize that this is a little bit of a fluff piece for ESPN but it makes some bold assertions without any data and without explaining what his numbers mean.  I really don’t like that.

In the article he says:

“One of the most misunderstood issues with changing positions is the injury risk that’s entailed.”

Why is it “misunderstood?” “Not ever addressed” as far as I know, but “misunderstood?” That is a curious word to use…


#4    dan      (see all posts) 2009/08/13 (Thu) @ 02:06

Maybe the guys who are switching positions are doing so because they are old and breaking down. You generally don’t mess with perfectly healthy players, you switch around the guys who aren’t handling the rigors of the position well.


#5    Nick      (see all posts) 2009/08/13 (Thu) @ 02:45

This study reeks of small sample size issues.


#6    MGL      (see all posts) 2009/08/13 (Thu) @ 09:35

"This study reeks of small sample size issues.”

“Maybe the guys who are switching positions are doing so because they are old and breaking down.”

We haven’t seen the “study” have we?  I would also guess that we have sample size and selective sampling issues.


#7    Guy      (see all posts) 2009/08/13 (Thu) @ 10:27

Do you really think there’s a chance we’ll ever see this “study?” Seem extremely unlikely.....


#8    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2009/08/13 (Thu) @ 10:32

I agree that there is no published study, and it’s only Will making a declaration based on whatever work he happened to do.  As a result, his statements have not been confirmed, and therefore, cannot be treated as a reference.

I’m hoping Will comes out with the actual study.


#9    MGL      (see all posts) 2009/08/13 (Thu) @ 13:11

Not to pick on Will, but if you make a bold assertion including the title of your article, on a web site accessed by millions of people, and one that has tremendous credibility (ESPN) in the eyes of the public, the LEAST you should do is present some data…


#10    Guy      (see all posts) 2009/08/13 (Thu) @ 14:43

By all means, pick on Will.  Look, he’s claiming not only to know the aggregate injury risk, but also that it’s just as high for “simple” moves like LF to RF.  Think about it:  how many of these switches are there in a 5-year period?  And how many players get injured playing the field? (presumably we don’t count injuries while hitting or running the bases) I can’t imagine he has enough data to support these conclusions.  If he puts the study out there, it will quickly be deconstructed by people who know a lot more than Carrol about statistical analysis (a not small group).  Which is why I doubt we’ll ever see it.  Hope I’m wrong, though.....


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