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Wednesday, November 24, 2010

Bill James speaks

By Tangotiger, 12:29 PM

Good interview.

If someone has studied the data and can demonstrate that our projections are over-optimistic, of course we’d look at it. If someone speculates that this is true, I’m not really too interested.

Intuitively, I doubt that that is true. Our projection for Jason Heyward last year was extremely accurate—a few points high on batting average, but an extremely good projection. For Buster Posey, we projected .270 with 11 homers, 54 RBI. He actually hit .305 with 18 homers, 67 RBI. We had projected Jose Tabata at .273. He hit .299. We had projected Tyler Colvin for 4 homers, 17 RBI; he had 20 homers and drove in 56. We had projected Michael Stanton for .228 with 9 homers, 22 RBI; he hit .259 with 22 homers and 59 RBI.

As part of the process of producing the Handbook, we look at every projection that we made the previous year, and compare it to what the player actually did. I study those charts every year, looking for any systematic problems. I would be surprised if anyone else actually looks at them as closely as I do after the fact, comparing what the hitters actually did to what we had projected for them, and I would be surprised if we were systematically optimistic on young hitters.

Other than playing time.

Last year, or two ago, I sent Bill something simple, on a league-wide basis: the runs scored per game on offense was quite different from the runs allowed per game on defense.

I never checked regarding biases by age, but if he uses the three best hitting rookies (Heyward, Posey, Stanton) as evidence that he is not optimistic by nailing their forecasts, then that’s evidence that he is too optimistic.

This is how a forecast works: you forecast a player’s true talent level, and presume that there is no good or bad luck involved.  That is, you do NOT forecast luck.  If, AFTER THE FACT, you select the three best hitting players of whatever population you want (rookies, outfielders, 35-and-over, whatever), then your forecast for them better have been LOWER than what they actually did.  Because, as a group, any player that performed better than league average is more likely to have benefited from good luck than bad luck.

HOWEVER.... if you selected Heyward, Posey and Stanton because they were the three guys you had the best forecast on, that is, you selected them BEFORE THE FACT, then you would definitely want to nail their forecasts.

So, it all comes down to how you select your players to show if you are being optimistic or realistic.  So, to test Bill James’ assertion, you need to rewind the clock to April 1, 2010, and select all the players that had, say, less than 100 career MLB plate appearances, and of those players, select the 10 guys that Bill James had the highest wOBA (or OPS or OPS+) for them.  And THEN compare to what they actually did.

If it’s a match, then Bill James was being realistic.

This is another one for you aspiring saberists…


#1    Ryan JL      (see all posts) 2010/11/25 (Thu) @ 05:35

Cant get formatting correct, so: GoogleDocs link


#2    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/11/25 (Thu) @ 08:53

Ryan’s data

Pre-2010 PA    2010 PA    bjOPS    actOPS    Player
0    0    0.845    0.000    Ryan Raburn
0    623    0.836    0.849    Jason Heyward
0    287    0.836    0.837    Logan Morrison
20    15    0.829    0.424    Tyler Flowers
0    161    0.825    0.525    Josh Bell
29    643    0.821    0.788    Gaby Sanchez
0    29    0.812    0.483    Yonder Alonso
0    0    0.807    0.000    Todd Frazier
0    0    0.802    0.000    Josh Whitesell
0    397    0.793    0.678    Justin Smoak
0    24    0.790    0.625    Desmond Jennings
0    0    0.787    0.000    Angel Salome
89    574    0.771    0.700    Ian Desmond
0    322    0.770    0.799    Daniel Valencia
0    675    0.767    0.745    Austin Jackson
68    222    0.764    0.656    Rusty Ryal
0    0    0.763    0.000    Jesus Guzman
0    159    0.757    0.615    Brett Wallace
0    396    0.755    0.833    Michael Stanton
65    41    0.746    0.512    Mike Carp
17    443    0.736    0.862    Buster Posey
76    294    0.732    0.560    Lou Marson
61    189    0.728    0.597    Eric Young Jr
20    394    0.727    0.816    Tyler Colvin


#3    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/11/25 (Thu) @ 09:09

If I take the simple average of Bill’s forecast and actual OPS of:

- anyone with at least 1 PA:
0.779: Bill
0.679: Actual

- with at least 150 PA:
0.775: Bill
0.724: Actual

- with at least 250 PA:
0.777: Bill
0.770: Actual

- with at least 350 PA:
0.776: Bill
0.784: Actual

So, it depends where you set your threshhold.  150 PA would seem to be a reasonable threshhold to set.  That about 35 games.

The other thing you can do is weight the differences by PA, which would seem to be the best way.  And for those players, weighted:
0.779: Bill
0.748: Actual

So, yes, Bill is optimistic.

If you KNOW who will get at least 250 PA, then Bill is correct.  But, we don’t know that.  Bill however treats the PA as if it’s not really tied to talent, and if he’s “allowed” to get to 250 PA, then he will get what he forecasts.

This is wrong, and you can look at Rusty Ryal with an actual OPS of 0.656 compared to a forecast of 0.764 in 222 PA.  Give him 28 PA at 0.764, and his 0.656 will only go up a little bit.

Indeed EVERY player under 250 PA was overforecasted.  That’s why they weren’t given 250 PA.

That’s why you have to be careful how you select the players for your pool.


#4    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2010/11/25 (Thu) @ 09:53

Ryan: what’s Ryan Raburn doing on your list?


#5    Ryan JL      (see all posts) 2010/11/25 (Thu) @ 13:32

Erm, I do not have a good answer for that question.  Somehow, despite having over 1000 PA I have never heard of him, and when his bb-ref link took me to his minors page I thought he was like the Mark Prior of minor league batting. 

Based on that, I thought Bill’s projection seemed mighty odd!  But should have looked into it further.  Sorry; I have removed him.


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