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Thursday, January 25, 2007

Batted Balls at Fenway Park

By Tangotiger, 02:42 PM

A researcher can be quite content to spend half his time analyzing the effects of Fenway Park.  It has all the parameters that makes it interesting to study.  Plus, it’s a fantastic place to see a game.  A great marriage of analyzing cold hard numbers, and then appreciating baseball in all its glory.

But, we need help:


1. I am shocked to see that a picture of Fenway did not convert well to an image.  That’s according to John Walsh, with respect to MLB.com.

So, I went looking at Fox Sports.  Opening up the image in MS Paint, I get these coordinates for the Wall:
116,319 to 233,191

The RF line is:
353, 431 to 470, 321

What does that mean?  The Wall’s x-coordinate moves 117 pixels, while the y-coordinate moves 128 pixels.
The RF line’s x-coordinate moves 117 pixels, while the y-coordinate moves 110 pixels.  So, they are definitely not completely parallel.  In order for them to have been completely parallel, the Wall’s second xy-coorinate should have been 233, 209.  The Wall on the Fox Sports site is positioned 18 pixels farther away (about 14 feet).

This is in direct contrast from the Walsh image which shows the Wall much CLOSER than parallel.

Looking at the Google image, if the Wall is not directly parallel to the RF line, it’s pretty darn close. 

So, in both the cases of Fox Sports (who I presume get their images from STATS, Inc) and MLB.com, they are off, and in opposite directions.

2. There are millions of people who watch and love baseball.  Presumably, everyone who created the baseball PBP recording systems also love baseball.  Why they track batted ball the way they do is beyond me.  It’s as if they see it from the viewpoint of some lackey who knows nothing about the business. 

If you are going to record the batted ball location, any baseball-loving fan knows that the ball does not go in a straight-line, and in one direction.  How should a batted ball be recorded?  With reality.  The way to do it is to *always* record the absolute most you can, and *then* decide how you can cut corners, while trying to still record something that approximates reality.

So, work with me.  A ball is hit, what happens?  It lands 50 feet from home plate, at which point it then lands 20 feet farther, at which point, it is touched by the SS on a downward descent.  So, you have *three* xy-coordinates to capture, and possibly an extra trajectory and z-coordinate (3 feet from the ground, on a downward trajectory).  The whole time (the fourth dimension) that took was 2.2 seconds. This represents reality.  And, if you convert a graphical image into a textual representation, you’ll end up with something like I’m describing.  And yet, all we get from PBP is:
x,y=75,90
type=GB

Doesn’t it matter if it was a 1-hopper, or 4-hopper?  Doesn’t it matter if it took 0.5 seconds, or 3.0 seconds?

It gets worse when the ground ball goes through the infield.  Some PBP records the location of the ball as it is picked up by the left fielder!  Isn’t that insane?  Others record if the ball hits something (like a wall), and records that position instead of the fielder pickup.  So, you’ll never really be able to draw a line back to home plate to figure out through which IF zone the ball went through.

Then comes Fenway’s Green Monster.  Don’t you really care where on the wall the ball hit?  Isn’t that a critical piece of information to have?  Did the ball hit 5 feet from the ground, or 25 feet?

Again, simply represent reality.  It hits the wall on a certain x,y,z point in space, and then lands on an x2, y2 spot on the field, at which point it’s picked up at spot x3, y3, z3 by a fielder.  Time to wall is 4.5 seconds, and time to fielder is 2.2 seconds.

Is that so hard? 

#1    Paul Todd      (see all posts) 2007/01/26 (Fri) @ 03:20

Greg Rybarczyk at Hit Tracker has plans to do something similar on all BIP, speed off bat, horizontal and vertical trajectories based on his HBT article.  I read somewhere he was going to start with 1 park for 2007.

No wonder Manny is always rated as the worst OF.  Look at all those balls hitting 10 ft or more off the wall that he didnt catch which a normal OF in any other park would have caught if the ball landed at that x-y location.


#2    Joe Arthur      (see all posts) 2007/01/26 (Fri) @ 04:02

Great work by John to figure this out by noticing the “missing” balls at what should have been the base of the wall.

Regarding the mlb and Foxsports’ diagrams being off, they presumably were developed in ancient times when satellite photos were not publicly available. Instead they would have had to “connect the dots” from the “official” distances for each park. Google Earth’s measuring tool reveals the left field corner is 305 feet from home, rather than the “official” 310 feet repeatedly published in such sources as the Sporting News Baseball Guide. Anchoring the left field corner at that false point appears to be what puts the mlb diagram out of parallel. FoxSports’ diagram is slightly distorted [angle between 1st and 3rd base lines is about 93 degrees!], and although showing the distance down the left field line as 308 feet, seems to have positioned it at just about 304 feet in the diagram (assuming that the back of the white line represents the fence [the line has a thickness of about 5 “feet"].

The issue of distortion in the diagrams is an interesting one which I haven’t fully thought through. [In the mlb diagram, while the field is portrayed as exactly a 90 degree sector, the infield and outfield do not appear to be on the same scale [compare the base locations with the satelite photo]. The scorers are not scoring the game from satelite; whether from the press box or from TV, they view the field from a foreshortened perspective (and TV, at least non-HD, seems to give a fisheye lens distortion to the field as well). Could the distorted diagrams be intentional, to map better to what the scorers’ eyes see?

In the case of mlb [not STATS or BIS], my suspicion is that their hit locations for Gameday are not intended to capture reality for analytical purposes [satellite view] but to support an idealized abstraction of how the hit location would appear on TV [foreshortened view].


#3    John Walsh      (see all posts) 2007/01/26 (Fri) @ 09:10

I wasn’t even aware of the Fox hit charts.  Sounds like there are some issues with their version of Fenway, as well, given Joe’s measurements.

I doubt the distortion in the mlb figure is intentional. I did some more measurements on hit and it’s got various problems. As Joe noticed, the IF is too small, relative to the OF. If we take the 310 down the left field line as correct, then I measure 3B to be only 85 feet from home plate.  That’s not the only problem either.  I measured several outfield distances and compared them to the numbers on the figure (again, assuming the 310 number to set the scale). Here’s what I get:

Label Actual
310 310
379 372
420 408
380 367

I did the same thing with the google photo and I get 310, 385, 417, 378 (still assuming the LF wall is at 310, which it probably isn’t).  Of course, there is some uncertainty in interpreting the exact position of the OF fence in the photo, especially for the 379 spot in left center.

I agree that these hit location numbers from mlb are probably not high quality, but I don’t believe that they are intentionally trying to mimic a TV view.  Anyway, I’ve got to make do with the mlb numbers, since the stats, bis products are (way) beyond my means. I do think there are some interesting things you can do with those numbers, though.

As for the LF wall distance, you might know that for many years the distance was officially 315 feet, but it was revised to 310 a few years back. There have been rumors ever since that the true distance is even less, and that seems to be born out by the google earth measuring tool, as Joe noted.


#4    Joe Arthur      (see all posts) 2007/01/26 (Fri) @ 10:09

It’s not just Fenway; looking at random at the diagram for Great American Baseball Park in Cincinnati, it looks as though the distances for left field line and right are reversed on the diagram. mlb diagram has 328 to left and 325 to right, but google earth suggests that it should be the other way around. Although it’s slightly in shadow on the satellite photo, it does look like they would agree that straightaway center is 404 feet away from home. And yet it requires about 48 pixels for H-2nd, which we know is just over 127 feet (2.65 feet per pixel) and 166.5 for home to straightaway center (2.42 feet per pixel). Whether it’s the infield or outfield which is out of scale, or whether it’s a continuous distortion can probably be figured out by looking for the coding of ball locations when they are hit very close to known fixed points (home and the bases; pitcher’s mound; foul poles) ...


#5    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2007/01/26 (Fri) @ 11:24

Here’s a fan who did the Google Earth pics of all parks:

http://inorganicallygonzo.blogspot.com/2006/01/baseball-stadiums-via-google-earth.html

You can click on the thumbnails to get the full-screen view.


#6    Peter Jensen      (see all posts) 2007/01/29 (Mon) @ 10:16

Am I missing something?  The satelite from which the pictures are taken is many miles above earth and is not going to be directly over the stadium so there is going to be some parallax distortion to any photo.  Add the distortion created by any lens, no matter how accurately ground.  What makes anybody think that you can take measurements to the nearest foot or two from such a photo?


#7    Joe Arthur      (see all posts) 2007/01/30 (Tue) @ 00:51

It’s worthwhile to be challenged that I shouldn’t take the satellite camera technology and adjusting algorithms on faith. But some of the images used by google earth (including presumably Fenway) are from aerial photographs, not satellites.

I think accuracy should be treated as two separate questions. 1) how accurate can the image itself be 2) how accurate is the software measurement tool which comes bundled with it.

Available image quality on google earth varies, but the better images are supposed to have about a 1-foot resolution.

For these images, measurement within approximately 1 foot does appear possible, as can be seen for example with Yankee Stadium, where the bases are in place in the image. We know Home-2nd or 1st-3rd s/b 127.28 feet. The measuring tool is within 1 foot for these distances. [As with LF at Fenway, it finds the true distances down the lines at Yankee stadium to be 8 and 4 feet shorter than the official distances.] And I get a measurement of 299.88 feet for the football field within Paul Brown Stadium in Cincinnati, where the gridiron markings are very clear ...

So in this tiny sample, the measuring tool and image appear to be accurate within 1 foot where there’s no doubt about the distance being measured. I remain cautiously skeptical of official park dimensions ...


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