THE BOOK cover
The Unwritten Book is Finally Written!
An in-depth analysis of: The sacrifice bunt, batter/pitcher matchups, the intentional base on balls, optimizing a batting lineup, hot and cold streaks, clutch performance, platooning strategies, and much more.
Read Excerpts & Customer Reviews

Buy The Book from Amazon


SABR101 required reading if you enter this site. Check out the Sabermetric Wiki. And interesting baseball books.
MOST RECENT ARTICLES
MAIL : You ask | We say

Advanced


THE BOOK--Playing The Percentages In Baseball

<< Back to main

Wednesday, February 02, 2011

Baseball America on 17yr old Felix

By Tangotiger, 11:44 AM

This is why scouting is critical:

Strengths: Hernandez has scary upside. He’ll open this season as a 17-year-old and he doesn’t need to develop any more stuff. The only guy in the organization with a comparable arm is big leaguer Rafael Soriano. Hernandez has the best fastball in the system and commands his mid-90s heat well. He regularly touches 97 and could reach triple digits as his skinny frame fills out. Hernandez’ curveball is also unparalleled among Mariners farmhands and gives him the possibility for two 70 pitches on the 20-80 scouting scale. Though he’s young and can easily overpower hitters at the lower levels, he understands the value of a changeup and is developing a good one. He can pitch down in the strike zone or blow the ball by hitters upstairs. He has poise and mound presence beyond his years.

Weaknesses: Hernandez just has to learn how to pitch. He needs to tweak his command and refine his pitches. Typical of a teenager with a lightning arm, he’ll overthrow at times but should grow out of that. Arm problems would appear to be the only thing that could derail him from stardom, and Hernandez has been perfectly healthy so far. The Mariners will go to great lengths to make sure he isn’t overworked in the minors.

The Future: Seattle wants to move Hernandez slowly, but he may not let that happen. He’s not going to need to spend a full season at each level and might need just two more years in the minors. He’ll probably start 2004 back at low Class A Wisconsin—the Mariners concede he could have spent all of last season there—and could be bucking for a promotion to high Class A Inland Empire by midseason. It’s easy to get overexcited about young pitchers, but Hernandez has the legitimate potential to become the best pitcher ever developed by the Mariners.

Put simply: if you only look at performance outcome results, you can’t get a report to read like that.  That’s because with limited performance data and against competition that is unlike MLB, you are going to heavily regress.  That’s why PITCHf/x is the goldmine, as it’s the one thing that can merge scouting observations with performance results.

At the same time, I can’t just look after-the-fact of this fantastically glowing report, see that Felix exceeed expectations, and determine that scouting “is all that”.  You have to look at ALL the glowing reports of 17yr old pitchers and see how often they hit and how often they missed.  Then we can say how much impact scouting can have.

This is similar to a statistical-only analysis of saying “hey look, I nailed [whoever… Latos, Strasburg, Weaver, Gooden, etc]”, but then ignoring all the others you ranked highly but didn’t nail.  You can get great forecasts for these pitchers by regressing only a little, but then that simply means you are going to include alot of pitchers that shouldn’t be there to begin with (and you’ll be saved by having the MLB managers not pitch those guys and thereby removing them from the sample!).

That’s why Marcel does so well by simply saying: “all minor leaguers will perform at league average”.  Because historically, this is close to true (90% of league average or so).  But, that’s an after-the-fact view, because managers have selected which players they think will perform the best based on in part, you guessed it, scouting reports.

PITCHf/x, FIELDf/x, HITf/x will eventually remove all this doubt, and finally put us in a position where scouting and statistics can converge to a single common point.  Just a matter of time until MLB will create its own academy league so that they can put in the f/x system in parks all across the country.


#1    Wells      (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 13:48

"PITCHf/x, FIELDf/x, HITf/x will eventually remove all this doubt,”

Really? You foresee a day where where the cameras and tech to run these systems are in every little nowhere park in every little Central/South American ballpark? Japan, etc? I don’t see that happening, well, ever, and certainly not in my lifetime.


#2    Colin Wyers      (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 14:05

Cameras? No. Radar? Scouts already carry radar guns. It’s conceivable that instead of just doing pitch velo, radar guns eventually are able to track full pitch trajectory, batted ball trajectory - I mean, that’s not out of the realm of possibility.


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 14:35

I didn’t say “every nowhere park”.  I said that MLB will create an academy.  Think of the way hockey is run in Canada.  The junior leagues are not school-affiliated.  There’s three junior leagues (Quebec, Ontario, Western), and they have some 12 teams each.  So, 30+ teams for players aged 16-19.  It acts as the defacto unaffiliated minor leagues for the NHL.

I can see MLB eventually sponsoring an academy of say 200 teams (playing in 100 parks) across America of the best kids age 16-19.


#4    Mike Rogers      (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 16:25

Can Felix hit 100+ on the radar gun? I only ask because I always get mildly annoyed with the “could add velocity when he fills out” as I don’t recall ever seeing it really studied. My gut feeling is that a pitcher’s top velocity remains static barring injury or a complete overhaul of mechanics.


#5    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 17:06

That scouting report was from when he was 17.  Sure, his top velocity may remain static, but only when he reaches say the age of 21-23, not 17.  (Well, non-pro players may top out at 17, but not the pro players.)


#6          (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 17:06

@Mike, I admit that I hate that terminology too, but just watching the Mets’ prospects over the last few years, I’d dispute that velocity remains static.

Compare Jeruys Familia (was throwing 91, then next year was throwing 97 in A ball at age 21) to Brad Holt (was throwing 95 at age 22, now throwing 91 at age 23).  Some guys top out in velocity in HS or College, while others learn somehow to add velo. 

(Similarly, Joba Chamberlain is quoted in the mlb.com draft summaries as being scouted as having a low 90s fastball.  He then went to a summer league, and hit high 90s, just one summer later.)

I get the feeling that “filling out” is a real phenomenon, but that scouts may over-predict how often it occurs.


#7    Mike Rogers      (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 17:11

Tom, even at 17, is a pitcher that already touches 97 likely to add more velocity at all, though? Given the few guys in pro baseball that can hit 97 at all means that it was unlikely Felix would ever add velocity to touch 100 (I don’t know if he does or not, I don’t get to see him enough, so someone please correct me if I’m way off base here).

Garik, I don’t dispute the loss of velocity thing. I know that Familia sprang up with high velo’s this year. Did he overhaul mechanics? I just don’t buy that filling out directly leads to 2-4+ MPH being added to the pitcher’s arsenal.


#8          (see all posts) 2011/02/02 (Wed) @ 17:29

Mike, in all honesty I don’t know, but isn’t this similar to the concept a hitter will fill out with power? 

Mind you, I hope filling out to add velo is possible, given that the Mets are counting on one prospect (Urbina) doing just that.


Page 1 of 1 pages


Name (required)
E-Mail (optional; WILL be published)
Website (optional)

<< Back to main


Latest...

COMMENTS

May 25 02:38
NFLPA lawsuit against collusion

May 25 01:43
Neal Huntington’s best moves

May 25 00:36
Help needed with sticky issue…

May 24 23:50
Rooting for laundry

May 24 20:16
Largest demonstration in Canadian history?

May 24 17:04
Firefox, IE, or Chrome?

May 24 12:07
How to beat the shift

May 24 11:11
Incredible story

May 24 09:41
Racial bias in card collecting: not the collectors, but the players on the cards

May 24 08:13
espnW for hockey: CBC’s WhileTheMenWatch.com