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Wednesday, August 19, 2009

Awards schmawards

By Tangotiger, 03:31 PM

Dave Cameron:

For many years, the majority of the BBWAA has defined value as “driving in runners on a winning team”, which is why high RBI sluggers on playoff teams almost always win the award. With the advent of the internet and the coalescence of passionate, enthusiastic baseball fans who like to quantify everything, that definition has come under fire, and rightfully so. As a result, every fall, we see the same articles pop up, just with different names. Stop me if you’ve read this sequence before.
...
In the end, it isn’t an argument about baseball. It’s an argument about the perspective of how the game is seen through various lenses, and in many ways, a disagreement about the progress of a generation. Most of us see baseball in a way that is very different from how our fathers and grandfathers saw it, which is not unlike the generational gap in almost every other area of your life. Does your dad use twitter? Is your grandpa a frequent visitor to the local tapas bar? Do you yell at them for their “ignorance”?

Rob Neyer:

Why do I care? I care because every award tells a story, a story about games and teams and players and ballparks and writers and writers who are also voters who are oh so human. The awards, just like the games and the teams and the standings, wind up being mostly about numbers. But make no mistake: there’s still room in there for plenty of interesting stories. That’s why I care.

I’m with Dave.  I don’t care.  I used to care about who made the All-Star game, but it was always the same thing: a few deserving players left off, a few players having a great first-half for the first time ever are on, and life goes on.  The worst part is that the guys who set the rules and vote on the awards are also the guys who write about it after!  Talk about creating and reporting the news.  It’s for the same reason that I don’t care about the Oscars.

The only positive thing about the awards is the highlighting of accomplishments.  If it was me, I’d leave it as the 5 nominees as the “winners”.  There’s no need to highlight one, be it at the Oscars or the Most Outstanding Player. 

I also don’t care about the HOF, except for Tim Raines.  Sometimes I do irrational things as a result.


#1    MGL      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 16:37

That is a very good article by David. He is a very good writer and articulates his thoughts very well. While each of us might have our own definition of “care,” I fully agree with him.


#2    David Pinto      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 17:15

I’m with you on the Hall of Fame and mostly on the All-Star game.  I still care about MVP and Cy Young.


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 18:20

David, do you care about the BBWAA’s MVP more than the Internet Baseball’s MVP?

Is your caring proportional to the amount of exposure that MVP award gets?  Why do you care?

I asked myself that, and once I did, I stopped caring.  In effect, I cared due to inertia.  It was a loveless marriage.

Basically, the BBWAA has decided what is important by reporting on their own awards.  The Internet Baseball Awards is voted on by 2000 people.  The BBWAA is voted on by 60 writers.  Thanks, but I figure the 2000 people who register a free account with BPro is more indicative of the quality of the voter than the 60 writers with a badge.  In any case, in 20 years, the bloggers will not even know what a BBWAA award is.


#4    NaOH      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 19:43

I’m mostly indifferent to the outcome of the awards and HoF voting, but I think they’re great for how they generate fan interest and participation.

Just to pick an example off the top of my head, imagine if a baseball equivalent to Joe Namath were elected to the HoF. The debate would be tremendous. In football, no one seems to care about his induction despite a career of mostly marginal stats.

As an added bonus, the baseball awards are given out at a great time of year. Since they are spread across the days between the end of the World Series and the beginning of the free agent/player signings and acquisitions, they help keep the sport in the news. Really, other than a couple of weeks between the end of January and the beginning of Spring Training, MLB has a large presence in the news cycle, and I think that’s great (from a business perspective). The annual awards are but one part of this, but it’s a positive addition for how it generates fan and media interest.

And even if someone could convincingly show that the awards (and HoF) need to be determined in a different manner, I haven’t yet heard of a viable alternative that would maintain the open-ended quality to these acknowledgements which elicit conversation.


#5    Ryan JL      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 20:31

I wrote this on Primer, but I “care” because it gives us insight into the way people think, the type of logic they use, and the arguments they construct to defend their logic.  I like it when people think critically, and debate with valid arguments. 

The MVP, unfortunately, (and the HOF,) usually brings forth many fallacious arguments, and many, well, stupid, defenses of certain positions.  That bothers me.  I enjoy these debates and I enjoy getting a window into how other people think (even though I often don’t like it!)


#6    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 21:52

Ryan, so you care for the journey not the destination.  In the end, who wins is really irrelevant to you.  Good.  I like that.


#7          (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 21:53

Analytically, I don’t care.  If Teixeira wins the MVP over Mauer this year, it doesn’t affect who had the better year, just like Pedroia beating Mauer last year and Morneau beating him in 2006 didn’t either.

As a fan, though, I do care.  I like seeing the players I perceive to be the best get rewarded for it, be it with awards, All-Star selections, or, ultimately, induction into the Hall of Fame.  I care about these things for the same reasons I care about the White Sox winning on a daily and yearly basis - because I have a rooting interest in teams, players, and the game of baseball.


#8    Eddo      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 21:55

Oh, I also would echo some of Ryan JL’s points.  I like seeing people engage in real discussion about awards.  Obviously, I don’t like the way many talking heads discuss topics, but I do like reading threads at Primer on the subject.


#9    Ryan JL      (see all posts) 2009/08/19 (Wed) @ 23:37

Ryan, so you care for the journey not the destination.  In the end, who wins is really irrelevant to you.  Good.  I like that.

That’s about right.

Take the Hall of Fame.  Who is actually in the Hall is 100% irrelevant to me.  But, on Primer, the HOF threads often contain some of the best debates you’ll see on any baseball topic.  It’s very interesting in my opinion.  They’re also about the only threads that stay on topic usually…

The “logic” that was used to induct Jim Rice while several superior players remain on the outside does bother me, but I wouldn’t feel better or anything if they took Rice out.


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