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Tuesday, May 03, 2011

At-Counts

By Tangotiger, 09:07 AM

Peter’s chart for 2002-2010.

1. The “through count” is 100 times more useful than the “at count”.  The at-count is saying “if you know the at bat ends on this pitch, what just happened”.  It is so prone to misuse, and so limited in its good use, that you have to be extremely careful.

The through-count is saying “now that I’m in this count, what happens by the time my turn at bat ends”.

I’m glad Peter said he’ll have the better chart next week.

2. Remove all IBB.  They are nothing but noise, and they cause problems.  If you insist on keeping the IBB, then treat them like regular BB in wOBA.

3. Last point: it’s easier to follow if you sort based on hitter’s count to pitcher’s count.  That means, in order:

3-0
3
-12-0
3
-22-11-0
0
-01-12-2
     0
-11-2
          0
-2

UPDATE: Through-counts here.


#1    Peter      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 09:28

The “through count” chart was published last night, actually. It’s linked in my name. I assume BtB’s RSS is behind again…

IBB weren’t used in calculating wOBA, but they were for OBA. If I could do it over I’d take IBB out of OBA as well. I’m just used to doing (H+BB+HBP)/(AB+BB+HBP+SF) that I didn’t even think about it. When I looked up the generic wOBA coefficients it explicitly says NIBB, which reminded me to remove the IBB:

(0.72xNIBB + 0.75xHBP + 0.90x1B + 0.92xRBOE + 1.24x2B + 1.56x3B + 1.95xHR) / PA

http://www.insidethebook.com/woba.shtml


#2    Tim Ifill      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 09:34

That’s great, and I’m looking forward to seeing the differences for through counts.  As it stands, it’s impressive how few of these counts really favor the pitcher in terms of the outcomes. Only three counts have a wOBA+ below 100 (though those three account for almost 35% of PAs.  I’d also love to see a comparison over different eras.  I wonder if it would match up to any observable change in either pitchers’ or hitters’ approachs.


#3    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 09:38

PA should exclude IBB as well, if that wasn’t clear.  Otherwise, an IBB would count as an out.

As for IBB in wOBA and OBP: if you are going to put the two side-by-side, in a chart about counts, you should probably treat them separately.  Having said that, I doubt I’m consistent in doing that.


#4          (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 09:39

Well, the link didn’t work in comment #1—http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/5/3/2150664/chart-detailing-how-batters-fare-after-every-count-2002-2010-mlb-data


#5    Tim Ifill      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 09:39

Ok, looks like through counts are up.  That does tend to make things look a little bit friendlier to a pitcher:  http://i55.tinypic.com/x5tt7a.png.

I’d say if you’re a hitter, you’d do well to get yourself to a 3-1 count (150 wOBA+), and if you do, you’re in even better shape if you can get your PA to end with that count (217 wOBA+).


#6          (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 10:01

The charts tweaked to exclude IBB—http://i51.tinypic.com/3308d9d.png.


#7    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 10:03

"you’re in even better shape if you can get your PA to end with that count”

This is exactly why we should not show the at-counts, because it’s prone to misuse as you are saying it.


#8    Tim Ifill      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 10:20

Yeah, it’s interesting comparing the differences between the two charts, but the through-counts are definitely more useful and less prone to misuse.  Though I’m going to my nephew’s little league game this weekend, so I think I’ll try to confuse him by insisting that if he reaches a 3-1 count, he somehow makes sure that he doesn’t see another pitch after that.


#9    Tim Ifill      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 10:26

It’s also interesting how much BABIP fluctuates in the at-counts chart.  I guess that’s because if you put the ball in play at 0-2, the pitcher is less likely to have thrown you a strike than if you put the ball in play at 3-0, hence the .283 to .315 BABIP spread.  As you’d probably expect, the BABIPs on through-counts are much more stable, though there’s still a dip at 0-2.


#10          (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 10:41

Right. When a batter has less than two strikes he’s generally looking to drive the ball and tries not to swing at pitches he can’t do anything with. With two strikes he has to protect the plate, which leads to some accidental BIP and more generally weaker contact.


#11    James Holzhauer      (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 11:56

Why are the wOBA numbers so different for the 3-2 counts between the two charts?


#12          (see all posts) 2011/05/03 (Tue) @ 19:14

I screwed up on that chart. See the one in comment #5 on the through count chart.


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