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Thursday, January 26, 2012

AL v. NL in 2011

By , 04:36 AM

It is generally accepted in the sabermetric community that the AL is a better league than the NL, at least for the last several years.  This is evidenced by the fact that the AL has a large advantage in IL games, although at least some of that edge could be something other than overall “talent”, although this is not likely and several people, including myself, have found little or no inherent advantage to the AL in IL games (e.g., the NL teams do not have any DH’s, so they have to juggle their lineup in AL parks, on the other hand, in NL parks, AL teams have to sit their DH’s or juggle their lineup, perhaps putting a bad defender - their DH - in the field, the AL pitchers typically are poorer hitters than the NL pitchers, etc.).


Since 2005 (an arbitrary beginning point mind you), the AL has a .555 WP in IL games.  That is a lot!  That suggests an average AL team would be a 90 win team in the NL.

My research in the past (do a search in this blog and I think I wrote a piece a while back on THT or BP) indicated that the edge has mostly been in pitching and in fact the NL may have had equal or better hitting than the AL in the last few years.  Keep in mind this has nothing to do with league rpg or ERA or the fact that the AL bats 9 real hitters and the NL only 8 (plus pinch hitters for the pitcher of course).  When we say that the AL is a better pitching team that means that if you took a pitcher from the AL and put him the NL, his rank among pitchers and thus his value, like WAR, would go up.  Same for batters.

So one way to quantify (within some degree of certainty - actually not a whole lot) any differences is to look at players who switch leagues from one year to the next.  If a batter switches from the NL to the AL and his batting lwts or WAR per x number of PA (or any other rate stat that is relative to league average) goes up then he is going to a league with less batting talent and vice versa. Again, you cannot use some non-league relative stat like OPS or ERA or FIP.

A few things about that though. One, you have to look at “switchers” from both leagues since it is possible that all players do better or worse for one year after they switch for various reasons.  Two, you have to be careful about regression.  Players who switch leagues are on the average below average players so their stats will naturally get better regardless of whether the new league is better or worse than the old one.  Three, the results only tell us about the relative difference between one league in one year and the other league in the next year.  You have to do some more gymnastics to compare leagues from the same year. For example, let’s say that in 2010 both leagues had the same talent on offense, but in 2011 the NL got better.  If a hitter moves from the AL in 2010 to the NL in 2011, his league-normalized rate stats will go down even though the leagues were the same in 2010 and we don’t know yet about 2011.  We only know from that example that the 2011 NL was better than the 2010 AL.

Oh, and you have to account for age of course when using this method.

Another method, and one I will present herein, is looking at IL games.  For that, you have to look at lots of things, since the teams that are fielded in IL games are not necessarily the ones that are fielded in non-IL games and of course we don’t really know how to compare the pool of parks in each league (although someone can try computing PF’s based on IL game data).

Here is the basic method:

Look at how AL batters do against NL pitching in NL parks and compare that to NL batters against NL pitching in the same (NL) parks.  If the AL batters do better than the NL batters in the same parks against the same pitchers, then they are the better hitting league, right?  Not so fast.  You have to control for the pool of pitchers and batters, especially the latter.  As I said, the teams that each league fields in IL and non-IL games are not the same.  AL DH’s are sometimes benched in IL games in NL Parks, and NL lineups can look completely different in AL parks. We also have to look at both sides.  As with the first method, it is possible that batters in IL games do poorly just because they are facing unfamiliar pitchers or playing in unfamiliar parks.  That might be true of pitchers as well.

Anyway, to compare leagues in pitching (and defense), we look at how NL pitchers do versus NL batters in NL parks and how AL pitchers do versus NL batters in NL parks.  Etc. (we look at all the permutations where we control for the opposition and the park).

Lastly, we can actually look at defense somewhat independently, since UZR is not really that park or league dependent.  Presumably a hard hit ground ball in the NL to location X has around the same chance of being fielded as one in the AL.

Interestingly, the AL had a huge (relatively speaking) advantage in UZR in 2011.  They had a total of +47 runs and the NL had -47 runs (remember that UZR is always zeroed out each year for BOTH leagues combined and the base line for the catch rates for each bucket is always 6 years of data from both leagues).  So the AL had an advantage on defense of around .04 runs per game, which is a .510 WP alone! In 2011, the AL won 52% of the IL games, so there isn’t much left, assuming that the 52% win rate is the true difference in talent between the leagues, which is unlikely (one SD by chance in 252 IL games is 3.2%, so we are 95% confident that the true difference, due to talent, is between 58% for the AL or 54% for the NL).  So really, we can pretty much ignore the 52%, although the fact that in prior recent years the AL dominated, changes the Bayesian a priori estimate (going into 2011, the chances of the AL being better is large).  But enough of that Bayesian nonsense!

Here is rest of the 2011 (other than above-mentioned defense - UZR):

Actually, I’ll redo the defense to look at the UZR of players actually on the field in IL and non-IL games, because we have to factor out the defense from the pitching in each bucket of games.

Let’s start with the NL batting at home versus AL pitchers (IL games).  After adjusting for the pool of batters and pitchers on the field (compared to the average pool of batters and pitchers for the whole year), the NL had a lwts (it doesn’t matter what out value I use, since I am going to use the same out value for all lwts calculations) per 500 PA of -6.9 runs.

NL batting at home versus NL pitchers is -.9 lwts, or -.07 rpg.  That suggests that the AL pitchers are 6 runs per 500 PA (.468 rpg) better than the NL pitchers. That is a lot. But…

Again, maybe the NL batters did worse against AL pitching only because they are not as familiar. We also have the better AL defense.  Plus we are only looking at half of our sample - pitching on the road. We have to look at pitching at home.

Now let’s look at the other half of our sample.

AL batting at home versus NL visitors: 2.7 lwts runs.  AL batting at home versus AL visitors: -1.9 runs.  A difference of 4.6 runs.  The difference in NL parks was 6 runs.  We have to take the average and assume the rest is due to unfamiliarity with the pitchers or random fluctuation, or both. So the difference in pitching (plus defense) is (6+4.6)/2, or 5.3 runs per 500 or .413 rpg.

Let’s factor out defense.  The AL defense in NL parks was .035 runs per 500 PA and the NL defense on the road in NL parks was -.313 runs per 500 PA, so the total difference in defense in NL parks was .348.  In AL parks, the AL road defense was .408 and the NL road defense in IL games was -.781 (ouch). The difference in defense in AL parks, was 1.189. Again, we take the average of 1.189 and .348, or .768 runs per 500.

So we subtract .768 from 5.3 and we get 4.53, or .353 rpg for the AL advantage in pitching in 2011!

The batting is easier since we don’t have to worry about factoring out defense.  I’ll skip the individual numbers and just give you the result.

The NL actually had a .1 runs per 500 PA advantage in batting! That is .008 rpg.

So final tally is:

Pitching

AL by .353

Batting

.008 NL

Defense

.038 AL

Total: .383 rpg AL, which is a 54.2% WP. Voila!

#1          (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 04:51

BTW, just based on UZR, here is how the league defense totals have swung over the years:

2004
NL +14
AL -12

2005
NL +1
Al -1

2006
NL 0
Al 0

2007
NL +8
AL -8

2008
NL -8
AL +9

2009
NL +13
AL -13

2010
NL -20
AL +18

2011
NL -47
AL +47


#2          (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 11:28

Did I read correctly that the NL has a worse road defense in IL games than they would otherwise?

If so that does not make any sense and sounds like poor management.  In an AL park it should be pretty easy to take the worst fielder off the field and park them at DH for a net fielding improvement.

What other factors could change the defensive ability of a team compared to an NL v NL game and an A:v NL game?


#3    kds      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 12:39

Steve, I would expect defense to be the most subject to HFA of batting/pitching/defense.  The height, material (think ivy at Wrigley), and shape of the walls matter, foul area, presence of tarps and bullpen mounds in foul ground, turf vs grass, and stranger things like the walkways in St. Pete.  I think a pitcher is mostly trying to throw the pitch to the desired location.  The park may have some effect on the choice of pitch and location, but aside from the mound itself, (which the pitcher has some control over), I don’t think the park will effect the pitcher that much.  The batter has tactical issues, (try to hit fly balls to left in Fenway), but mostly I think his issues have to do with visibility.  I think on a PA basis the park effects that influence HFA, (which will be greater in IL games because of the rarity of the visit to that park by the road team), will be greater on defense than pitching/batting.


#4    bsball      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 13:30

Is it true that AL teams outspend NL teams? I think I’ve seen something showing the average AL payroll is about 10% larger than the average NL payroll (and has been for a while). So an AL team would have an extra 9 million or so per year to spend. Assuming the leagues spend as efficiently as each other what should that translate into in runs/game? How close is that to MGLs .383 rpg?


#5    Jacob Jackson      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 16:23

I think the explanation for the pitching being the significant difference in league strength is the recognition by both pitchers AND GM’s that an inferior pitcher has an easier chance of surviving in the NL than he does in the AL. 

Remember Lohse’s dismissive comments about pitching in the AL?  He said that he didn’t want to play “Arena Baseball” anymore.  Not coincidentally he had struggled a great deal in his final year in Minn.

So the presence of the DH and more patient AL lineups has the effect of funneling a greater percentage of the game’s worst pitchers to the NL.

I would imagine if we were to look at Opening Day rosters and do a study of, “Who are the worst 50 pitchers in Major League Baseball,” or “50 worst starting pitchers” either by scouting/stuff or performance or a blend of the two, that we’d find that ~35-40 of them are NL guys.


#6    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 17:08

I showed that AL and NL teams spend the same per win.  So, the salary would act as a decent proxy for talent.

(Salary adjusted for service time would act as a good proxy for talent.)


#7          (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 20:23

I think we have reached some level of parity, at least in 2011, but this might be temporary with the switch of Fielder, Pena and Pujols to the AL.

This parity seems to have come about due mainly to the shocking failure of AL teams farm systems to bring up good young hitters in recent years.  Also, some fairly significant injuries to guys like Morales, Mauer, Youkillis, and Morneau etc, and the decline in performance of the DH across the league.

So the AL has better pitching but the NL better batting (against inferior NL pitching, and only a little bit).  I agree on the pitching, not so convinced about the hitting advantage though, slight as it is.

I suspect Jason Bay and Adam Dunn skewed these results, so it may be a SSS effect.  Generally, we have seen a transfer of good pitching from the AL to the NL which suggests pitchers prefer facing NL lineups (probably due to the lack of a DH), and hitters tend to migrate to the AL primarily because AL teams have a DH spot to use hitters in the latter years of their contract when fielding plummets.

Finally, I must admit I don’t fully get this one

“Players who switch leagues are on the average below average players so their stats will naturally get better regardless of whether the new league is better or worse than the old one. “


#8          (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 20:27

Actually, Jason Bay and Dunn offset each other, but Bay has more PA in the NL than Dunn in the AL.


#9    pm      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 20:47

League normalized stats?

Are the NL hitters being compared to a pool where pitchers are included? What about NL pitchers against pitchers or AL pitchers against DH?


#10    MGL      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 22:36

#9, pitchers are not included as hitters in the NL. Their hitting stats are ignored.  A league normalized stat is, for example, linear weights, where the out value is set so that the entire league has zero batting runs in linear weights, so a “league-average” player in each league has a linear weights of 0 batting runs. If that player (who has a lwts of 0) moves to a league with better hitters, his lwts will be minus and if he moves to a league of worse hitters, his lwts will be plus. That is regardless of stats like wOBA, OPS, etc., unless those are normalized to the league (in which case, they are exactly like lwts), such as OPS+, RC+, or wOBA+. The quality of a league’s hitters has nothing to do with the pitchers or parks in the league. If the NL all of a sudden brought in high school pitchers, obviously the hitters’ “raw” stats would go up, but lwts, OPS+, etc. would stay the same, and my calculations would be no different. I would simply compare NL hitters facing their own high school pitchers (in non-IL games) to AL hitters facing those same high school pitchers (in IL games), in the same parks of course.


#11    MGL      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 22:41

pft...oy....

I think we have reached some level of parity, at least in 2011, but this might be temporary with the switch of Fielder, Pena and Pujols to the AL.

I assume you mean hitting parity (unless you completely skipped over my post which shows that the AL is still much better, at least it was in 2011). In any case, I am so glad you agree with my conclusion. And BTW, my conclusion comes with some non-trivial degree of uncertainty given the small samples we are working with in only 252 IL games per season.

This parity seems to have come about due mainly to the shocking failure of AL teams farm systems to bring up good young hitters in recent years.

Which ones? Wouldn’t that mean that the NL should tend to be the better hitting league? They are equal in hitting (as far as I can tell).

Also, some fairly significant injuries to guys like Morales, Mauer, Youkillis, and Morneau etc, and the decline in performance of the DH across the league.

Oh, I don’t know. I think you could come up with some substantial injuries in the NL too. I could be wrong though. It is true that AL teams don’t seem to care much about the DH. It should be the best hitting position, but it is not. I don’t know which approach is optimal. Maybe they would prefer to have more flexibility in the field (especially with IL games being 10% of the schedule) and that is optimal.

So the AL has better pitching but the NL better batting (against inferior NL pitching, and only a little bit).

Yes, we think that the AL has substantially better pitching and the hitting is essentially equal. A .008 rpg advantage for the NL in hitting is not significantly different than zero. And the NL inferior pitching has nothing to do with the relative quality of the hitting between the two leagues. Please read the first part of this post.

I agree on the pitching, not so convinced about the hitting advantage though, slight as it is.

Again, nice of you to agree with me on the pitching. BTW, you will NEVER be able to “see” the difference in quality, certainly not anything smaller than a gigantic difference. So unless your opinion on this is based on a similar analysis as mine, it is less than worthless (no offense - my opinion would be worthless as well - you CAN’T see these differences!).

I suspect Jason Bay and Adam Dunn skewed these results, so it may be a SSS effect.

Every player contributes to the effect. There are poor and great players in both leagues. I am comparing the average of all players in one league to the average of all players in the other league. Sure some players have a larger effect than others. In fact, all the great and terrible ones do. The fact that those players had flukey bad years doesn’t “skew” the results. Lots of players will have flukey good and bad years.

Generally, we have seen a transfer of good pitching from the AL to the NL which suggests pitchers prefer facing NL lineups (probably due to the lack of a DH), and hitters tend to migrate to the AL primarily because AL teams have a DH spot to use hitters in the latter years of their contract when fielding plummets.

Where are you getting this from?  The AL has had much better pitching than the NL for several years now. So why are you saying that, “We have seen a transfer of good pitcher to the NL lately?” And the DH has been around for 39 years. I also doubt that pitchers care whether they pitch in the AL or NL?

Finally, I must admit I don’t fully get this one

“Players who switch leagues are on the average below average players so their stats will naturally get better regardless of whether the new league is better or worse than the old one.“

Sorry, I didn’t explain that well. Player who switch leagues just tend to be well below average players. Probably because many of them are old, replacement level, and journeymen who bounce around from team to team. They will regress toward the mean (league average for their age, etc.) the next year, regardless of whether they switch to a league with better or worse players. Look at any ground of players who are, on the average, say, -10 lwts per 500 in year x. What will they be in year X+1? Around -7 lwts. They appear to get better, but they are just regressing toward the mean.  Their true talent was actually -7 in the first place (ignoring aging effects from X to X+1). So when you use the “switch leagues” method, you have to correct for this regression effect. You can do that in various ways which I won’t go into unless someone wants to know…


#12    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 23:03

Some little calculation here.

Let’s say we treat the AL v NL as AL winning 54% of the time (and NL as naturally 46% of the time).

Let’s set replacement level as .300.  This means that the average NL team is +.160 above replacement and the average AL team is +.240 above replacement.

Now, the actual win% of NL last year was .498 (it helps tremendously that 90% of the time, you are guaranteed to be .500).

In order for them to be +.160, we have to set the replacement level in 2011 to .498-.160=.338.

Similarly, for AL in 2011, it’s .502-.240 = .262.

In terms of total WAR:
NL: .16 x 162 x 16 = 415 wins
AL: .24 x 162 x 14 = 544 wins

In terms of salary, this is what we should expect.  80/.20 x WARpergame + 10

In AL: 80/.20 x .24 + 10 = 106MM$ per team
In NL: 80/.20 x .16 + 10 = 74MM$ per team

So, if teams are spending about this amount, then we see that salary (even unadjusted for service time) is a proxy for talent.


#13    MGL      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 23:10

So, are they? Team salaries are on the USA Today web site, I think…


#14    MGL      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 23:15

Of course salaries represent wins purchased over a period of time.  And wins purchased are only a percentage of a team’s wins. The other parts are draft and development (and trades for other team’s non-FA players) and luck.

So shouldn’t the salaries represent a much smaller spread than the 54/46? I mean what if the observed difference in talent between the two leagues was 54/46 but teams could only sign or trade for 1 FA per year and salaries were limited to 10 mil per team? Most of that 54/46 would be luck and team talent in draft, development, and trades (for non-FA players).

The reality is that it is somewhere in between. Only part of that 54/46 is due to payroll.

So I think we should expect to see something like 98/82 rather than 106/74…


#15    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2012/01/26 (Thu) @ 23:25

Actual average in 2011 is 98/89.

And, I don’t see why it shouldn’t match (Service time aside).

So, we need to adjust for service time.


#16    MGL      (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 00:52

"And, I don’t see why it shouldn’t match (Service time aside).”

For the reasons I said (I think). Only part of a team’s WAR are from payroll. That is the whole point of the draft, right? To make sure that teams at least start off at an even keel.

If I never spend a penny on payroll, won’t I still have lots of WAR, just through the draft? And if one team (or league) is better at the draft (and/or developing those players), then they will have a better team, with no extra payroll expenditure, right?

If that is what you mean by adjusting for service time, then we are on the same page. But without doing anything, only part of the disparity among teams or leagues is going to be reflected in payroll.

If teams could only sign players as free agents (like all other businesses), then payroll would exactly reflect quality (not counting disparity in valuing players or luck). But that is not the case, so payroll will NOT reflect quality to the same degree…


#17    tangotiger      (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 03:11

Felix in his 1st arb year got almost 4MM$.  Most players don’t get anything close to that.

So, yes, adjusted for service time.

Even pre-arb players have some slight difference.  Teams will pay better players say 600K, and the worse players 500K or 450K.


#18    MGL      (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 03:42

I’m obviously not suggesting no correlation only that the intercept of the relationship equation (between payroll and WAR) is not nearly zero and the coefficient is not nearly 5 mil. You are using 5 mil per win for all players. For the arb players, it is not that, and for the pre-arb players it is essentially zero.


#19    Tangotiger      (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 08:44

ACtually, I’m not using 5MM$ per win.  Indeed, I am using the following:

80/(.200*162) = 2.5MM$ per win

That’s because everyone has been lumped in together.

So, a 25MM$ free agent will count as “10” wins.  That’s why we need to adjust for service time.

I was hoping that free agents and pre-arb players would be distributed evenly between the two leagues, and chances are, they are not.


#20    Matthew Cornwell      (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 12:20

I wonder how this information vibes with rWAR’s Al vs. NL adjustment?  If I am not mistaken, a player in a much inferior league will lose about .4-.5 WAR in a full season compared to someone in the superior league.  I also wonder if pitchers and position players are affected differently?

I have also heard before that the very best players’ numbers do not change nearly as much upon league change as average or below average players.  Is there any evidence to support that?


#21    MGL      (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 13:09

"I have also heard before that the very best players’ numbers do not change nearly as much upon league change as average or below average players.”

Where did you hear that?


#22    Matthew Cornwell      (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 13:35

SaberMatt from the USS Mariner site (the guy who made up the PCA system, if you have seen that) claimed that he did a study on that with those results.

Based on your question, I am guessing you disagree or have seen otherwise.


#23          (see all posts) 2012/01/27 (Fri) @ 14:02

MGL, pitchers DO care whether or not they pitch in the AL vs. the NL.  That is indicative in Lohse’s “Arena Baseball” quote.  He’s one of the more outspoken guys in the sport; if he is expressing it, he’s very likely not the only one feeling it.

Pitchers, like most baseball players, care about their stats.  It’s part of the reason that SP’s hang out in the dugout after they are removed mid-inning and then pump their fist when the reliever strands the runners that would’ve been attributed to the SP’s ERA.  They don’t bother to do that in the later innings (when they are in the clubhouse getting treatment), or on their non-start days. 

Every pitcher knows he will, on average, post better baseball card stats in the NL than the AL.  And they do care about that stuff.


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